5th string breaking- help please

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

My 5th string is breaking and it's always in the exact same place. About 1/2 inch or less, from the twist at the ball end. I went from a 017 to an 018 thinkin it might help, but still breaks same place. I have felt for a burr but can't feel anything. Any help will be appreciated.
Oh, I have a 2004 Mullen RP and I use Jagwire strings.

Terry

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Mullen RP D10 /8x5 / Nashville 112/ American Tele
pickin for Jesus

Farris Currie · From: Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

sounds like a bad batch of strings to me!!!

try another brand would be my sujestion

crazy thing happens!!!!

farris

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

WEll if it's not a bad batch of strings....I would still try smoothing the top of the finger with scotch-brite pad; then mothers or simichrome to polish. Then if that don't do it...I would start working on the pull chain; as somehow it is taking more tension to pull that string is why it will break at the main pulling down area.
The roller not moving will effect that...
Not having enough(at least 4)wraps on the tuning peg post; will create more tension on the finger as that side is not stable with less wraps.
The way the rod is pulling underneath and it's line of action and straightness in it's action; and anything binding/inhibiting it from pulling straight and smooth; will create tension.
The finger not pivoting properly or any kind of build up of grime/grit/gunk; will prevent the finger of moving with ease and that will create tension. How the finger sits and starts and stops; is a factor also down the line.
So start with that; then I have about 10 more things it could be....Have fun.
Ricky

A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

Terry how long are your strings on till they bust? My 5th string busted but keep in mind I didn't change em for 2.5weeks, and I play alot, I did bust a tenth string it actually unwound not snap, it was kind of cool,

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Well Farris, we can rule out a bad batch of strings. This has been goin on now for several months. I have ordered several singles from b0b several different times, and I'm down to my last 018 Jagwire.

Ricky, I'll try the sanding down of the top of the finger and I've got some semi-chrome to put on it. I hope that fixes it so I don't have to do all that other stuff

AJ I'm breakin a string about ever week to a week and a half and I don't play over an hour or two a day. some days not that much.

A forum friend told me he had the exact same problem with the same string and he tried a different brand and that worked for him. Guess I'll try that first. Thanks guys

Terry

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Mullen RP D10 /8x5 / Nashville 112/ American Tele
pickin for Jesus

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Terry - Before "sanding" the top of the finger, check with Mike Mantey, at Mullen. The fingers on Mullen guitars are anodized. If you sand them, you may ruin the anodized coating.

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Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

Mullen U-12, Excel 8-string Frypan, Evans FET-500, Fender Steel King

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Even if it IS anodized, if it has a burr, it has to be SMOOTHED out...

Terry, I can't say why, but several months back I purchased a few sets of premium Brand X , liked em' fine when they were finally on the Steel, , and also about a dozen .011's and .017's.

I started breaking .017's and .011's at a much more rapid rate. A few of them broke as soon as I put them on, the ball end wrap kept stretching.

Did I put them on wrong ? Sure anythings possible. But I am now back to BRAND Y and the breakage issue has returned to the normal cycle, all this just from changing the brand of strings.

I suspect a batch with weak or bad wraps.

I was going to contact the dealer , not to complain, but to advise. I still may or perhaps if I see him in St Louis I will ask him what he thinks.

t

Mike Wheeler · From: Delaware, Ohio, USA

Remember that retailers buy batches of strings at a time to get a good price break. Just because you order at different times, or even from different dealers, doesn't necessarily mean you are getting strings from a different manufacturing run.

I've personally run into the same problem and temporarily switched to a different brand for a couple months, then switched back...problem disappeared. Just my experience.

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Lee, I didn't know the fingers were anodized, but I knew they were not just plain steel. They look like some kind of hard plastic LOL! I've already asked Mike about this, and if I remember right he also told me to look for a burr on the finger. I don't remember him telling me to sand or not. I'll e-mail him again to be sure.

Tony, I've tried Jagwire, which I've been using for a good while, and I also tried a few SIT I bought when b0b was out of Jagwire, and they broke just as fast. So I really don't think changing strings is gonna help. I'll email Mike again and see what he says about sanding the finger, but I sure don't want to mess it up. Thanks

Terry

Adrienne Clasky · From: Florida, USA

I also play a U12 and break the 5th string more than any others--actually, I haven't broken any others. I think on the U12 that string gets lots of pulls. I have started to put flute oil on the changer and the string over the changer and that seems to prevent excessive breakage. Just my one cent.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I think you are wise to seek the expert advice of the Mullen people as per Lee Baucum's post. They know their guitars better than anyone.

If you can't feel a burr, then there's probably not one there. One way to check is to pull a cloth or one of your wife's nylons

across the finger after you remove the string and see if it snags.
If there is indeed a burr there, I suggest you heed Mike or Del's advice on correcting it.

As a proud owner of 2 pre RP Mullens, I can tell you I've never had a problem with gouging or burrs on these hard anodized fingers.

It is possible though, I suppose, especially if someone laid it upside down on the fingers. That weight could allow for the twisted section to dig into it.

FWIW, I've not had good luck with 18's and 22's on my Mullen. The best results for me have come from using 17's and 20's. I think that is what Mullen recommends on their guitars.

If it were my guitar, I'd try another major brand of .017 and check that the 5th string raise stop is adjusted properly.

Feel free to email me if there is anything I can do to help you.
Also, I can usually get 4 or 5 four hr. gigs or more out of a 5th easily before I need to worry about changing it for fear of it breaking. YMMV of course.

[This message was edited by Jerry Overstreet on 04 July 2006 at 10:48 AM.]

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Well, I had rather use the 017. But when they started breaking I asked Mike and he said going to an 018 might stop the breaking. It hasn't. and It don't seem logical to me that an o17 of another brand wouldn't break, after I've already tried an 018 of 2 different brands and both broke just as quick. I'll Email Mike and see what he says. He mentioned shipping it back to Mullen, but I don't want to have to do that unless absolutely necessary, because of the shipping cost and because it's the only steel I have. Thanks for everyones help.

Terry

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Mullen RP D10 /8x5 / Nashville 112/ American Tele
pickin for Jesus

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 04 July 2006 at 12:49 PM.]

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

"Not having enough(at least 4)wraps on the tuning peg post; will create more tension on the finger as that side is not stable with less wraps."

Ricky, respectfully - that goes against the opinions of most guitar techs in the 6-string world, and the physical effects are no different on steel. You want as FEW wraps as possible for stability. More wraps = more chance of the string stretching and going flat over time.

Two wraps is the max normally recommended; one with locking tuners.

Also, the number of wraps will have nothing to do with tension at the changer...1 wrap, 20 wraps...the tension won't change. Pitch, bar pressure, pick attack - those all affect tension...not tuning post string wrapping. Once the string hits the nut you could have it tied to a tuner, nail, banana tree, car door...if the note is the same, the tension is the same at the other end.

FWIW I thiink it's almost certainly a tiny burr. The "nylon" test is a good one also used on brass Telecaster saddles for the same reason. I would also not recommnd sanding the finger if it's anodized....that's a very thin plating and you'll go through it before you know it's gone. I wouldn't use anything rougher than a Scotch-Brite pad, or polishing compound and a cotton cloth.

It sounds lk one of he strings (when you changed types) had a sharp point and caused the burr, causing breakage in subsequent strings. It should be easy to fix since the scope is so narrow.

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

If some of the ideas above fail to work, I think I might look at the amount of pressure on the pedal that is pulling the 5th string. The rod may need to be repositioned on the bellcrank to allow less pressure on the pedal to pull the B up to a C# note. I know I've had a couple of guitars that the 5th string would ring on down around the 8th fret, especially whenever I raised the B to a C#. Changing strings didn't help, so what I did is I reset the rod on the bellcrank by moving it to another hole/slot and made the pull easier. That stopped the ringing. This may have been mentioned earlier, I didn't read every reply but disregard mine if someone else mentioned it. Thanks.

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Guys, I appreciate your help on this. I hate to sound dumb to dumber, but what is a scotch brite pad? Is that the steel wool stuff, or is it like a soap pad?

Whenever this string breaks, and it won't be long, I'll try the stockin test to see if it snags. Thanks to all who have helped me.

Terry

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Mullen RP D10 /8x5 / Nashville 112/ American Tele
pickin for Jesus

Jim Eaton · From: Santa Susana, Ca

Do the "stocking" test, but use a cotton ball instead of the stocking. If there is a "burr" it will catch a few strands of the cotton ball and show it's self for the dirty little string breaker that it is! LOL
JE:-)>

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Emmons D10PP 8/4 -75'
Emmons SD-12PP 3/4
Zum SD-12 5/5 - 91'
76'Session 400
86'Nashville 400
06'Nashville 112 x 2

Jerry Roller · From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

OK Terry, here is my opinion FWIW. First off I don't suscribe to the idea that a very tiny burr can cause a string to break and particulary not a .017 or .018 tuned to B and pulled to C# on a 24 1/4 scale. Also, I am confident that there is nothing in the design of a Mullen guitar that would make it prone to break that string. So, I would go looking elsewhere for the problem. Since it is breaking at the changer end it is not the fault of the nut roller. This is unlikely but you are running out of possible causes. So, I would suggest that you watch closely the lowering return spring and finger to see if the lowering finger pulls away from the stop at any time when you engage the raise. I have never seen this on a 5th string but I have on a 3rd. If the return spring is too loose and the raise tuning nut is run in too far that string can raise way beyond the note you want and then settle back down to the correct note. When it goes too high it can cause it to break. Sounds wierd I am sure but it can happen. Also make real certain the string is not mispackaged and that it is for sure a .017 or .018. I would carefully inspect the travel of the changer fingers during a pull both at a very slow deliberate engagement and also a sudden engagement.
Jerry

Joe Smith · From: Charlotte, NC, USA

Terry, I also like Jerry Roller's Idea. Could very well be the return spring.

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Thanks Jerry, I will check that out first thing tomorrow morning. I'm gettin droopy-eyed, got to go to bed

Terry

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Mullen RP D10 /8x5 / Nashville 112 x 2 / American Tele
Thank God for music.

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Well Jerry, I laid my steel over on it's side, and worked the A pedal with my hand.
I just didn't see anything unusual goin on
as I was working the pedal. The return springs seem to have plenty of stiffness in them, and I didn't notice any out of the ordinary movement of the lowering fingers.
Mike Mantey said he didn't think the scotch brite would hurt the anodized coating on the changer, if there happened to be a burr on it, but I honestly don't think a burr is the problem. I'll try the cotton ball just to make sure though.
The #10 pull rod is in the 2nd hole down in the bellcrank, and the #5 rod is in the 3rd holw down if I remember right. That's down from the body of the guitar, not the crossrod.
Terry

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Mullen RP D10 /8x5 / Nashville 112 x 2 / American Tele
Thank God for music.

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 06 July 2006 at 03:35 PM.]

Joe Smith · From: Charlotte, NC, USA

Terry, do you have the Franklin pull where you lower 5&6?
If so, try lowering 5 and then raising 5 and see what happens.

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Joe, I don't have the Franklin pedal. My LKV lowers 5 and 10 a half tone.

Terry

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