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Topic: Fender SFDR volume? |
Jeffrey Shu
From:
Winston-Salem, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2019 8:54 am |
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I've read a wealth of archived information about Peaveys and Fenders over the last several days - man, the Forum is gold! Many posts are years-old, so I'd appreciate anyone who could comment on current equipment. I've got a Peavey Session 400 Limited, but am looking at a '78 Fender SFDR. I can only keep one, so a big decision.
1. I'm concerned about the DR's volume. Could a modern speaker replacement boost that enough? Most of my gigs are with PAs but I play with drums and electric guitar. The Twins I've seen are even further out of my price range, thus the speaker consideration. Several posts recommended speakers, but the thread I read was from 2012.
2. Is a '78 tube amp, beautiful as the sound is, going to hold up to the road. It's been recapped this month. And I'm a weekend warrior at most - 2-4 gigs a month, mostly local, but don't want a pothole to ruin my night since, again, I won't be able to afford to keep both. Say what you will about the Limited's tone, but it has plenty of headroom and is sturdy. And heavy  .
Thanks in advance for any info or advice you can offer. Lord knows I need both.
_________________
The Bo-Stevens (honky tonk/old country) & Tupelo Crush (Americana/rock)
'94 Marlen D-10 w/ chrome-wrapped BL 705s, Quilter Steelaire, '74 Fender Twin/JBL D120s. |
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Brian Hollands
From:
Geneva, FL USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2019 9:11 am Re: Fender SFDR volume?
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| Jeffrey Shu wrote: |
The Twins I've seen are even further out of my price range,
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Not sure I understand, a Twin Reverb is quite a bit less expensive than a Deluxe Reverb. A good SFTR should be no more than $800 in my experience.
The later Ultralinear ones are less desirable to guitar players and likely better for steel.
A Deluxe with one of the very efficient Eminence speakers like the Swamp Thing is known to hit over its weight but its still only 22 watts...
_________________
'81 Sho-bud LDG, 2 EMCI's |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2019 9:25 am
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| Are you looking for a lightweight amp or bigger tone. The 400 is plenty loud enough but heavy. Depending on the band, a Deluxe don't stay clean at higher volume. I would stay with the 400, but then my Deluxe Reverb reissue has never pleased me tone wize. You may be perfectly happy with it. |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2019 10:06 am
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Per volume, the DR will never match the Session Limited or a twin. Tone is extremely subjective, but if you really mean the Session Limited (not the earlier LTD), then, to my ears, a Twin blows it out of the water. But that's just me.
Tube amps might need a little more care than a SS, but they're pretty rugged, especially the point-topoint wired ones. |
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Jeffrey Shu
From:
Winston-Salem, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2019 4:32 pm
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Brian, maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. I'm also concerned with weight. Have been lugging around my Limited for years - would be nice to go even a little bit lighter. But I'll need some headroom.
Can you describe differences in the ultralinear Twins? Thanks for the help.
_________________
The Bo-Stevens (honky tonk/old country) & Tupelo Crush (Americana/rock)
'94 Marlen D-10 w/ chrome-wrapped BL 705s, Quilter Steelaire, '74 Fender Twin/JBL D120s. |
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Brian Hollands
From:
Geneva, FL USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2019 6:00 pm
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Not sure when they introduced the ultralinear amp but it went from 85 watts to 135 with a different output transformer that was designed to be cleaner than the earlier amps. Fenders ultimate idea for headroom up to that point. By 78, they were ultralinear.
Here's one https://greenville.craigslist.org/msg/d/cardwell-amp/6935959927.html
And here's a screen shot of recent Reverb sales.
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'81 Sho-bud LDG, 2 EMCI's |
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Barry Coker
From:
Bagley Alabama, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2019 6:03 pm
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Hi Jeffery you are where many of us ether were, are or will be. Tube amp tone or Solid State light weight?? Tube amp tone with good head room = weight (Heavy). Solid State can give high Power with light weight but tone to some can't match that tube sound.
The Deluxe Reverb (6v6 power tubes 1-12" speaker 22Watts
Fender Twin reverb (6L6 power tubes 2-12" speakers 80-85 Watts. The Deluxe is loved by guitar players because it breaks up or distorts at lower volumes not a great deal of Clean head room.
If your in a small venue the Deluxe will work fine or if your always running a Mike through the PA the Deluxe will work fine.
I'll leave the details of the Electronics to better qualified but another modern amp to check is the Fender Blues Deville they get no respect but are pretty good clean 40 watt tube amps.
Good luck
Barry
_________________
Zum-D-10, Webb 614-E, 65 Pro Reverb, Evans RE200, 69 Gibson Birdland, 89 Telecaster EAD Bad!! |
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Jeffrey Shu
From:
Winston-Salem, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2019 6:47 pm
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Thanks Barry and Brian. I got my Peavey sounding much better this week with a little Forum-assisted tweaking, and with a Deluxe sitting beside it on loan. Easy to fall in love at practice volume, but seems the vast majority say the Twin is a minimum power.
The good news is, again, with some searching, reading, and listening/comparing the two amps, I got a grip on my Peavey's mids. I like what I've got, so I'm not in a hurry to make the jump. Maybe I've got some more listening to do....
_________________
The Bo-Stevens (honky tonk/old country) & Tupelo Crush (Americana/rock)
'94 Marlen D-10 w/ chrome-wrapped BL 705s, Quilter Steelaire, '74 Fender Twin/JBL D120s. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 22 Jul 2019 3:38 am
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is a tube amp going to hold up on the road ? Well why wouldn't it ? Other than caps and tube maintenance every now and then (years) they are all still working,even the ratty beat up ones.
If you are not willing to grab and go 65 to 70 pounds, then a Twin is not a consideration.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Barry Coker
From:
Bagley Alabama, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2019 3:38 am
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You might want to search the Ken Fox mods for your Peavey I did the mods on an LA 400 (similar to Nashville 400 and Reno 400) and it made a world of difference in the tone. Ken is a great guy to work with and his mods are simple to install.
Good Luck
Barry
_________________
Zum-D-10, Webb 614-E, 65 Pro Reverb, Evans RE200, 69 Gibson Birdland, 89 Telecaster EAD Bad!! |
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Jeffrey Shu
From:
Winston-Salem, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2019 11:27 am
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Tony, just wondering about '70s gear durability. Glad you're giving it a vote of confidence.
And Barry, I had the factory mod kit installed in my Limited when I bought it (through the Forum, of course). Are the Fox mods significantly different?
So is the Twin preference largely based on headroom, or is there a tonal benefit as well over a Deluxe? All I've got are questions.
_________________
The Bo-Stevens (honky tonk/old country) & Tupelo Crush (Americana/rock)
'94 Marlen D-10 w/ chrome-wrapped BL 705s, Quilter Steelaire, '74 Fender Twin/JBL D120s. |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 22 Jul 2019 9:28 pm
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| Jeffrey Shu wrote: |
And Barry, I had the factory mod kit installed in my Limited when I bought it (through the Forum, of course). Are the Fox mods significantly different?
So is the Twin preference largely based on headroom, or is there a tonal benefit as well over a Deluxe? All I've got are questions. |
A) Yes. The Fox mods used OPA2134s; the factory mods used OPA2604s. 2134 MUCH better.
B) Twin has ~4x more POWER, with TWO 12" speakers= ~ 9 db LOUDER (a LOT!!). Also has a midrange EQ control that the DR does not.
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Emmons & Peavey |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 23 Jul 2019 12:32 am
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[quote="Barry Coker"
another modern amp to check is the Fender Blues Deville they get no respect but are pretty good clean 40 watt tube amps.
[/quote]
I think this is a typo above , the 2x12 Blues Devilles / Hot Rod Devilles are 60 watt rated amps over the 1 x 12 Blues Deluxe / Hot Rod Deluxe, which are 40 watt rated. Both versions are 2 x 6L6 amps
The 40 watters carry a great deal more headroom over the Deluxe Reverb, old or new RI. They come in at around 40+ pounds. While the 60 watters indeed have an edge of headroom over the 40 watters . Just be aware, the 2 x 12 Devilles, either generation , weigh near the same as a Twin reverb. Ask me how I know .
These amps sound just fine, maybe a tad bright. Very rugged. I've owned and used the 1 x 12 "Deluxe" versions since they hit the market in '95. They just make it in clean headroom for Steel. I also own a late 90's Deville 2 x 12 and use it now and then. This platform provides additional clean headroom but comes with more weight. I used the 2 x 12 Deville for a show last week where I was not familiar with the venue, PA , stage etc. I never plan on any show where amps are mic'd. So far I have been near 99% safe ! When I plugged into the Deville I was immediately reminded why I still own this amp. If you are a double duty player, this amp is the answer, following a Twin Reverb of course.
The 22 watt Deluxe Reverbs, vintage or new RI's do not compare in clean headroom to either of the 40/60 watt Blues or Hot Rod models. And they are not supposed to either. For the money, a 40 watt Blues or Hot Rod Deluxe is still one of the best values out there, and I believe the 1 x 12 Hot Rod Deluxe is still Fenders strongest selling amp model.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2019 11:51 pm
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| Quote: |
| So is the Twin preference largely based on headroom, or is there a tonal benefit as well over a Deluxe? All I've got are questions. |
The top half of the Duluxes volume output is going to beak up, further limiting your headroom, if you do not want that with the steel. The SF Twin Reverb is going to give you 100 (or 135 with utltra liner) of clean headroom - the difference is like night and day.
It sounds like $$ is of concern, but you may want to consider splitting the cabinets. This made the unmanageable (for me) weight of my Twin, a non issue - each cabinet is now about like picking up a Deluxe. |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2019 2:23 am
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I just returned my SF twin (1971, 100 watt) to split cabinets as well. It's impressive how much the head still weighs, but it is decidedly more manageable than the combo.
I'm enjoying my new '65 DRRI, but, if the situation allows for higher volume, the tone of the '71 twin is superior to my ears. |
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Jeffrey Shu
From:
Winston-Salem, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2019 4:16 am
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[quote="Bobby Nelson"]
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| The SF Twin Reverb is going to give you 100 (or 135 with utltra liner) of clean headroom - the difference is like night and day. |
Bobby, do you know why are the ultralinear amps seem to be less desirable? Just the fickle market, the fact that extra power keeps it from breaking up for guitarists, or is there a tonal or quality drop?
Taking the Deluxe I borrowed back today... (sniff sniff), but my ears have learned volumes, pardon the pun. And the idea of splitting a Twin is quite intriguing.
I'm giving my Limited one more shot in the near term - adding the Fox mod on top of the factory kit I already had.
_________________
The Bo-Stevens (honky tonk/old country) & Tupelo Crush (Americana/rock)
'94 Marlen D-10 w/ chrome-wrapped BL 705s, Quilter Steelaire, '74 Fender Twin/JBL D120s. |
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Tommy Mc
From:
Middlesex VT
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Posted 25 Jul 2019 7:54 am Re: Fender SFDR volume?
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| Jeffrey Shu wrote: |
I'm concerned about the DR's volume. Could a modern speaker replacement boost that enough? |
Jeffrey, I have a '73 SFDR with a Fender Special Design replacement speaker rated for 100 watts. It doesn't make the amp any louder, but the low end doesn't fart out like the stock speakers. The tone is to die for. It's a great guitar amp, arguably one of the best for small to mid sized barrooms.
the SFDR so on one occasion I brought it to a gig. My experience was that 22 watts couldn't cut through the mix. There simply wasn't enough clean headroom. I used it for one set, then switched back to my Session 400. IMHO, the SFDR is great for practice and maybe recording, but unless you're going to mic it or play quiet restaurant gigs, it won't cut it onstage.
| Jeffrey Shu wrote: |
The good news is, again, with some searching, reading, and listening/comparing the two amps, I got a grip on my Peavey's mids. I like what I've got, so I'm not in a hurry to make the jump. Maybe I've got some more listening to do.... |
I know my Session 400 is a different amp than your Limited, but I'll pass on my thoughts on midrange. For years, I had a hard time nailing the great tone that everybody attributes to the Session 400. I scoured the forum looking for how other people set their EQ, but it wasn't until I read a frequency analysis of the Session that I figured out something that made sense to me, and worked.
At least on the E9 neck, the fundamental frequency of all the notes below the 12th fret (and many above it) fall into the frequency controlled by the Mid knob. The other EQ knobs control ranges that are overtones and (I suppose) undertones. With that in mind, I start by setting my Mid all the way up. This goes against all I know as a guitar player, but why turn down the very frequencies you're playing? With the Mid on full, I then adjust the Shift to around 600hz-800hz and play with the Bass and Treble. On my steel, that's Bass on 10, Treble on 3, and Presence on 10. YMMV |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2019 11:06 pm
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| Quote: |
| Bobby, do you know why are the ultralinear amps seem to be less desirable? Just the fickle market, the fact that extra power keeps it from breaking up for guitarists, or is there a tonal or quality drop? |
I can't really say Jeffry, as I've never played through an ultra-linear. If they sound as good as the 100 watt versions, I'd love to have one.
Putting a good twin set up together can start to get a little pricey (I think I have just under 2 grand in mine). But, being able to do it in stages takes the sting out of it. As said before, for around $750 -$800, and maybe a little more at the amp shop, you can be up and running. Then, you can mess with speakers and cabinets as you can afford to.
Also, about your concern of old fenders reliability: I hauled a 1964 Super reverb around, beating and banging it up, for decades. It always sounded great, and never gave me a moment's problem on stage. I replaced the caps in it, and maybe a resistor or something in the 25 or so years I had it. I've never blown an old Fender - I have blown a solid state however. I also hauled a couple old 1950's Gibsons and Supros around as well, with the same type reliability. |
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