Playing live without an amp

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

I am intrigued by the concept of playing gigs without having to lug around a normal pedal steel amp. Olli from Finland posted on the Reso-Nation regarding his stage set-up, and he is doing this for all his instruments (PSG, lap steel and reso). His post got me researching the subject and really thinking about the possibilities.

Olli is using a Tech 21 Sansamp Blonde to get the basic steel tone, with delay and reverb pedals also in the chain. The Sansamp Blonde sounds really good, but what else is there? I would like to know all the options before spending money.

Of course, this assumes the band is performing with a high end PA. I have a small acoustic amp (Fishman Loudbox 100) that can be my personal monitor for the steel on stage, as well as my DI connection to the house system.

Any comments or experiences to share?

Edward Byrne · From: Foxford, County Mayo, Ireland

I have heard good reports on the sansamp blonde pre amp, and it would be a good back up to get you out of a hole if your amp went down on a gig, but for the life of me, i cant imagine wanting to play if i didnt feel he air moving behind me through an amp, no matter how good a sound going out through the P.A. thats my personal take on it, and the cube 80 is not a whole lot of set up to be lugging around, i bet the sansamp blonde would be interesting to further expand the tonal possibilities of a cube, and could be used within reach from the steel for on the fly tonal and volume changes, hmmm interesting thought???
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I've tried the Fishman with steel, and spent the whole time trying to get an acceptable sound so I didn't light the amp on fire. If you can do the gig hearing a sound you don't like, go for it.
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Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

The Fishman certainly sucks by itself for steel. And it's hard to imagine that an 8" woofer and a 1" tweeter would be sufficient for stage, but it does the job for reso.

The Sansamp Blonde is supposed to emulate the sound of lots of different Fender amps, including the Twin, so when used to drive a full range system (which the Fishman is supposed to be, albeit very compact) it should sound a lot better. Remember the house system is substantial, and that's what the audience is going to hear.

I hate to spend money on stuff only to find out it doesn't do the job I need. Olli says it works. I'd like to get some more opinions.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

If I had to do that, I just flat would not play. No way I'd entrust ALL of my sound to a sound man and PA system, regardless of how good he (or it) was. Some of the best sounds I've ever heard was when the whole band used just their amps, and the singer alone used the PA. Also, some of the worst sounds I've ever experienced was where everything (all instruments and vocals) went through the same amp and speakers. I want to hear individual instruments, not reverberated mush like you hear from a half-time show at a Super Bowl game. Rolling Eyes

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

These are jobs where my Session 400 is currently being mic'd. So I've already given up control over what the audience hears. With my steel amp on stage I can get the tone I want/need on stage, but there is no guarantee that the audience is hearing the same thing.

So for me it's not a big leap to go direct into the house system, provided that what I hear on stage is reasonable.

Jonathan Cullifer · From: Gallatin, TN

I know several people that trust their soundmen enough to run their steel essentially straight into a DI. If the soundman is good enough, a modern board should have more than adequate reverb/delay for live work.

I have yet to be able to do that, so I'll continue to haul an amp. Either way, in a large room, the soundman essentially has complete control over the sound. I gave up worrying about it a long time ago.

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

I very rarely have my amp miked and have not ever played without an amp on stage, but have studied the subject a bit. First, you need a preamp of some type, maybe a Pod XT, Tubefex, Stereo Steel, or something similar. I happen to have a Tech 21 Blonde pedal, It would not be my first choice as a preamp. I'd use something like the Stereo Steel or Pod xt. This preamp will give you control over your tone and volume. I would use my own effects, the Pod or tubefex have them built it. If your preamp doesn't have effects, you will have to use separate ones. You will need to hear your guitar, that means you need monitors. The sound from the monitors will be controlled by a sound tech. The other players on stage will need to hear your guitar, they will have to get it from their monitors.

What you and everyone on stage hear will be determined by a sound man. I guess if you are working with real pro soundmen you might expect everything to work and be able to hear yourself well. I don't operate in the world of pro sound men so, personally, I would need to be very sure that I trust the person responsible for the sound that I hear on stage. Rather than go completely ampless, my first choice would be to have my own amp and have it miked. That way I could hear myself on stage, and not worry about what it sounds like out front.

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Bill: I would have control over what I hear on stage, as the steel signal would go from the steel/volume pedal to the Blonde, then to the Fishman sitting on a chair or stand right next to me, and then out from the Fishman to the house. So the Fishman is my monitor and I control it. If the Fishman doesn't have enough power to stay clean at the volumes needed, I can ask for an additional house monitor.

This all started when I began playing more than just pedal steel on stage. I'm now also playing reso and lap steel (clean on some songs and overdriven on other songs). I played a couple gigs using three amps, each with either a mic or line out to the house. If that seems excessive, it was!! Far too much equipment to move and keep track of, particularly at events with multiple bands and quick changes between bands. I'm trying to make life simpler.

Olli has a pedal board that covers all three instruments. That looks like it would be a lot quicker to set up and tear down. I'm tempted to follow his lead, but just want to get the benefit of others experiences and knowledge. Maybe there's something better than the Sansamp Blonde.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I have used a Baggs paracoustic di and it worked fine. Sounded as good as the Nash 400 that blew up. I like using my amps on stage but a good sound system and a di will do the job if needed. Lots of bands and church gigs are on in ears now so the ball game has changed.

I'm keeping an eye out for a good direct recording system. So far I haven't liked anything as much as an old Fender amp.
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Darrell Birtcher · Posted 25 Dec 2012 11:34 pm

I think Bill Moore is on the right track. A small rack mount setup would be better than a pedal setup. My experience with the Blonde is that it is not a good a clean tone pedal. The Liverpool is actually better. Better yet is the Bass Driver or ParaDI, if you're going with pedals. Lots of folks here love the Pods. They would save a lot of space and have decent effects built in. Just my 2¢

Bud Angelotti · From: Larryville, NJ, USA

There is great gear out there to use without lugging an amp. Just remember to stay real friendly with your soundperson or else forget it. You're better off staying home and watching TV.
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Olli Haavisto · From: Jarvenpaa,Finland

When using the Blonde, you have to play like you`d play a real Fender amp. Set it up fairly loud and and work the volume pedal. It won`t play clean with the pedal floored. It works for me because my favorite steel tone at the moment comes from a SF Deluxe Reverb w. D120F. The same approach you`d use with an amp like that works with the Blonde. Maybe a little hair around the edges, but I like it. But, if you like squeaky clean, look elsewhere.
And, if you don`t have a good soundman and monitors, forget it Smile

The pedal board Paul described is mainly for acoustic singer songwriter gigs etc. Gigs that are basically acoustic (dobro and weissenborn), with a little pedal steel here and there.
EDIT. Whatever you use, the key is always what comes after your rig. If it`s a Behringer PA at the bar of a bowling alley, you`re out of luck. If you have a dedicated monitor cab with a personal mix and the gear is good you can play anywhere. I`ve done hockey arenas and festivals without an amp. It all depends on the soundsystem and the guys working it.

Here`s a pic of my board, if you`re interested:

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Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

I have tried my Pod XT a few times and after the first shock for a song or two hearing the sound come from over there it settles in pretty easily.
Any change that drastic requires some practice and getting used to.
A used pod XT is $100-200 has tuner and all effects at your finger tips.
You may however be required to read the manual or seeking help setting it up.
I know that's a deal breaker for most people but once it is set up it's kind of nice.
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Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

I agree; the Tech 21 Blonde seems more like a distortion pedal than a clean preamp. I used to use it as an eq in front of my amp. It worked pretty good for that. I tried it as a preamp, it didn't have much gain before it distorted. The Pod Xt would be the most cost effective unit for a preamp, in my opinion.

Olli Haavisto · From: Jarvenpaa,Finland

The Blonde can be played clean if the extra gain needed is applied later in the chain,at the mixer input. I have played dozens of gigs with it and it is definitely not a distortion device only. You just have to experiment with it and find the right settings.
There is , of course plenty of distortion available but to say it`s just a distortion device is simply not true.
Edit. For driving a poweramp the Blonde may not in some cases have enough clean gain, if that is what you meant, Bill, I agree. But into a good DI and enough gain at the mixer it works great...
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Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

In concert situations with a big PA company, I usually like using just Brad Sarno's Revelation pre-amp, with a basic Lexicon delay/verb in its efx loop. I hear myself in the floor monitor (wedge). One advantage of this system is that the tone that I hear is the same as the tone in the house. If they mic your amp, you don't know what it sounds like in the house.

Darrell Birtcher · Posted 26 Dec 2012 11:20 am

Earnest's comment is true with a minor exception, and forgive me if I'm splitting hairs. The EQ on the mains is separate from the monitor's EQ.
In large situations, the comment that you're always at the mercy of the soundman is very true. He can usually not improve on what you send him regardless of how you process it, but he can sure make it sound worse!

For many, the amp is an important part of the sound equation. If you can generate YOUR tone without one and you are comfortable relying on the monitor mix to hear yourself then go for it.

On the bigger shows I've done I've seen both amp and ampless. Most still prefer a nice loud amp in their ear but it's getting more popular to not have amps or wedges on stage, opting for in ear monitors. Stage volumes are coming down, usually to the level of the acoustic sound of the drums. A couple of recent examples:

George Jones' guy had a preamp/processor of some kind.
Tracy Lawrence's guy had his Evans amp out of sight at the back of the stage, pointed backward, mic'd, and it was running at an extremely low volume, so I have to assume he was using it for the tone.

Olli Haavisto · From: Jarvenpaa,Finland

I find it healthy that the volumes in professional situations are coming down.
I wouldn`t have even tried to use a Deluxe Reverb for steel 5-10 years ago but now guitar players are using Princetons and old Gibsons in the 15 watt range. With good monitoring you can get a studio quality sound and get it without losing your hearing. I`m loving live playing more than ever... I can even get my dobro heard finally and it only took 30 years ! Smile

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Finland

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Well it seems I've come full circle in my thinking on this subject. My current set-up sounds great so I'm in no hurry to make major changes.

I like the idea of combining various pedal like devices on a single pedal board capable of running all my instruments; like Olli's really cool board. To use rack components to cover three instruments, I suspect one would end up with a rather large rack.

I wouldn't buy a Blonde for the distortion features. I already have two pretty good distortion pedals and I rarely use them. I want clean tone all the way to the top, and it sounds like the Blonde would not be the best choice for that.

A Pod XT, or something similar might work, but I noticed a number of these units being sold used on Ebay with disclosures about various defects. And my experience with lower priced digital signal processors has not been good. They've all been returned or sold.

Convenience matters, but tone is still the king.

Jay Ganz · From: Out Behind The Barn

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Jay: Your steel certainly sounds clean in the video. I'm curious about your use of the 20 db boost in the reverb pedal. Is that something that you find necessary to use on occasions to get enough volume? Do you find that the Blonde doesn't give a strong enough signal to your powered speaker to give all the volume needed?

Jay Ganz · From: Out Behind The Barn

It sorta depends. If the band is pretty loud, I might crank up the gain on the reverberator pedal about half way.
Other times, just a bit...maybe around 5 db (out of 20). Another band I play with
isn't quite that loud, so I don't need hardly any extra signal to feed the powered cabinet.
There are also other seperate clean gain boost pedals out there as well. Most are pretty small in size.

Tony Williamson · From: North Carolina, USA

I bet my bose L1'S could take on a steel guitar. I haven't tried them....but they are as clean as they come...two subwoofers apiece and 24 2 inch speakers per tower. 1000 watts
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john widgren · From: Wilton CT

There are a lot of occasions where I am required to play without an amp. Not my first choice, but when ya gotta, ya gotta. I use one of my Telonics preamps with the processing of choice (Lexicon MPX-1 or even just a Hardwire rev7) in a small lightweight 2 space soft rack case. I use the headphone out to my phones to set the tones and tune. I give the line out to the FOH or broadcast truck, and use whatever is provided as a monitor (hot-spot wedge etc,). If I need more me, and can't get it from the sound man or there's no time for a good mix, I keep my personal headphones around my neck and use them using the headphone out and volume control on the front of the unit. The mute function allows me to tune or play along to stay warmed up without the signal going anywhere but in my ears...when I'm "on" I flip the switch and I'm out there into the world...

Its great!
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