P/P, solid rods to changer

Henry Matthews · From: Texarkana, Ark USA

I just bought an Emmons P/P from Billy Carr that has solid rods to the changer instead of the little wires.
I might add that the guitar was everything and more than Billy said it was and what a great guy to deal with.
Has any one any thoughts on this type setup, pros or cons, etc. It works great and really smoother than the wires, and looks a lot better.
The rods are 3/32 and the little stops or collars are made for 1/8 rods but they seem to work real well and I haven't encountered any problems yet. Thinking about converting my other P/P to this.
Any thoughts or feed back?
Henry

Henry Nagle · From: Santa Rosa, California

How do the rods get the slack they need without the little wires? I'd love to see a picture.

Duane Becker · From: Elk,Wa 99009 USA

I dont think that this is correct for the Emmons push pull. I have been playing the pp now for quite awhile and I am not an expert, but from hearing what Mike Cass, Larry Behm, Bruce Hamilton and JD Maness say, you dont want to have solid rods, you need the little wires hooked from the changer to the rods on the raises. I'd check the experts first before I would do any mods to additional push pulls. Duane Becker

Henry Matthews · From: Texarkana, Ark USA

Yo can put the slack that's needed in the rod it's self where they go onto bell crank. Be the same difference. I wish I knew how to post a picture and I would. Maybe some of the P/P experts will jump in here.
The P/P with the solid rods plays and sounds wonderful and is easier to play than most all pulls. Haven't found any drawbacks yet but would love to hear from someone who really specializes in P/P's.---Henry

Lynn Stafford · From: Ridgefield, WA USA

Henry,

I personaly don't think that this type of modification would be the best thing to do to an Emmons push-pull guitar. Several reasons were described here in a link to a previous SG Forum thread on this very same subject. A few well known experts had similar concerns as well.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/012169.html

I Hope this helps,

Lynn

Roger Light · From: Sheldon, IL

Henry,
Sounds like my old Emmons is around again. I sold it and I think it was then ebayed. Not sure if this is the one you have or not?
Check this link out. http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/011501.html

[This message was edited by Roger Light on 08 June 2006 at 12:51 PM.]

Henry Matthews · From: Texarkana, Ark USA

Hey Roger, It may very well be you guitar. Its black and did have the wide line finger boards which I promply removed, abd has e-66 pickups. Sound famliar?

Why did you get rid of it? It's a great playing and sounding steel and as I said before, the solid rods cause no kind of problem that I'm aware of yet. But you know what they say (HOW AN YOU IMPROVE ON PERFECTION)

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

NOT a good idea, IMHO. One important function of those little connecting links is to keep the "pedal stuff" mechanically isolated from the "music stuff". I'd imagine that a guitar thusly modified would have less sustain and more pedal noise.

Jerry Roller · From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

Henry, the main reason I would not do it is that it is pretty permanent. You would have to drill out the holes large enough for the pull rods and this would weaken the changer fingers. I see no reason to change the modded one you have but I would advise against doing it to other guitar. I also believe you get a more accurate pull with the hooks.
Jerry

Henry Matthews · From: Texarkana, Ark USA

Thanks for all the good advice guys. I believe I will take you all's advice and not change my other P/P. However, the mod does seem to work very well and haven't noticed any kind of significant pedal noise or any other drawbacks at this time. Will let yall know if it causes any problem. Thanks---Henry

Henry Matthews · From: Texarkana, Ark USA

Hey Jerry I forgot to tell you that I got the fret boards on fine and they look great on that black guitar and play real true. Just didn't like those wide fret boards.--Henry

David Higginbotham · From: Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA

Henry, Just a little bit of recent history on your guitar. Roger Light had this guitar for sale a while back because he had purchased a new guitar. (Roger is a great guy by the way) I bought it from Roger because of all of the talk about P/P's. The guitar had great tone and sustain, but I couldn't get used to the action. It was stiffer and longer than the travel on my GFI. After spending several days with it, I decided it wasn't for me. I listed it on ebay and Billy Carr bought it. He was supposed to get it back to original, but obviously he didn't.

As for the rods rather than wires, the debate has been extensive. The guys who perform work on the P/P's insist that it is not a good setup with the rods. Others say it doesn't make any difference. I am certainly not here to debate the issue. What I will tell you is my opinion. I had one P/P S-10 a number of years back and found that it had more slack and not quite true on the returns as this guitar. It needed regular adjustments and I only kept it a few months.

I do not believe the rods to be a bad idea. Great care was taken when adding the rods and it was a very good job. I found the pulls to be very accurate and true and no noise at all. I do believe that it lowers the overall value of the guitar only because it is not "all original." Other than that, I say it is your guitar and you know it works just as well as the other P/P you have minus the wires! Enjoy the guitar and form your own opinion of what works well for you. I do know it has the "Emmons Tone" and plays true. Had I not been spoiled to my GFI and so hesitant to change, I would still have that Emmons!
Dave

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GFI D-10 8&7, Roland GP-100 & Mosvalve 500 into two Black Widow 1501-4's

Henry Matthews · From: Texarkana, Ark USA

Thanks for the input Dave. I know where you are coming from about the feel and pedal action of a guitar.
I had to change this over to Day setup and when I did I must have done something right because it's got the smoothest and easiest pedal action of any guitar I've got or ever had. It wasn't that easy to play when I got it, I just spent a lot of time really tweaking it out and I'm not an expert by any means. I even moved a couple rods down a hole to stiffen up the pedals a little and now it just plays great.
I'm sure you are right about the mod changing the value of the guitar not being org. But for myself, I do think the solid rods are as good as the wires but I wouldn't say they are any better. Thanks for the info on the guitar.
By the way, do you know what year it is??
Henry

Henry Nagle · From: Santa Rosa, California

2006

David Higginbotham · From: Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA

If memory serves me correctly it is a 1978 model...glad it worked out for you. Although I have repaired and adjusted many all-pull guitars, I am not familiar with P/P's so I was a bit out of my league. Hope the guitar serves you well..
Dave

Roger Light · From: Sheldon, IL

David is correct. I sold it to help pay for my new Rains. It had been a great guitar, but I've always wanted a brand new one. I finally "bit the bullet" and bought my Rains and I don't regret it at all. If money had not been an issue that Emmons would still be sitting in my practice room! It always played great and stayed in tune all night when I gigged with it. Hope you enjoy it as much as I have.
And Dave, thanks for the kind words. You were great to deal with too! We are miles and miles away from each other and the transaction was smooth as silk.
Rog

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