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Topic: Knee Lever |
Charles Dilworth
From:
California, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2019 12:48 pm |
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Hi,
Im a beginner/ intermediate. I've had my (70's?) MSA Sidekick for some time now, and have been concentrating on major chords/ riffs. My one knee lever was completely disconnected from the rods, and that had been fine up until now.
Recently I decided I was ready for more 6ths, so I started setting up the knee lever. I notice the MSA is set up to bring the 8th and 2nd strings down, which seems totally weird.... I expected that it was going to work the 2 E strings.... isnt that the normal setup? anyone have any insight?
(I only rigged up the 8th string, because the 2nd string behavior is just too odd for my ear, at least at the moment....)
Thanks in advance |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 1 Jun 2019 1:22 pm
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On a primitive guitar, a single lever lowering 2 and 8 is quite traditional and correct. Persevere and all will become clear.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Harry Dove
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2019 5:08 pm
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| If I only had one lever I would lower 2 and 8. You can get Eb that you would get on the 4th string by using the 2nd string. Lloyd Green still does it that way. On the second string you get the Maj7 without lowering, Dominate 7 lowering a half step, and 6th by lowering a whole step. You didn't mention if you have a half step lower or a whole step lower. Most people now use a whole step lower with a half stop so you can feel the half step lower. I think most of us lower string 9 along with string 2, and make it function after the half stop. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 12:59 am
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When people started lowering both Es, then lowering 2 and 9 became common.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 4 Jun 2019 9:13 am Re: Knee Lever
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| Charles Dilworth wrote: |
...so I started setting up the knee lever. I notice the MSA is set up to bring the 8th and 2nd strings down, which seems totally weird.... I expected that it was going to work the 2 E strings.... isnt that the normal setup? anyone have any insight?
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Another reason for that change is because the student models often had the simplest of changers (with one-piece fingers). Having the 4th string lower would have required extra parts, as that string is raised by the "C" pedal. So they gave the player an alternate and useful change (lowering the 2nd string) that required no extra parts. |
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Charles Dilworth
From:
California, USA
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Posted 9 Jun 2019 9:11 pm Knee Lever, still
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| Many thanks everyone. I think I’m going to try taking my 2nd string up to E so I can use it as if it were a lever actuated 4th string, which I think is what Harry is suggesting below, re Lloyd Green - right? |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 10 Jun 2019 12:52 am
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I don't believe that's what Harry means. What you get nowadays on a student model was how a pro one was set up back in the days before all-pull changers.
So what you might best do is leave it as it is until you graduate to a smarter instrument. The Winston Bible allows for the lack of a 4th string lower, and it doesn't seem to have hampered Mr Green. I had to use my 2nd string for D# on my first guitar and it helped my technique.
If you get used to substituting E to D# on the 2nd string, then you'll have to unlearn it again later and meanwhile you won't learn how to use 1 and 2 for melodic passing notes (which is what they were put there for).
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 10 Jun 2019 7:05 am
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Although my preference is to lower string 4, I sometimes do use the 2nd string instead. To me there is a slightly different tonality between the two. Especially when used against the A note on string 3. Seems to add some tension. I'm assuming it's because the 4th string lower and the 2nd string are tuned to different offsets. It's kind of cool.
Harry said:
| Quote: |
| If I only had one lever I would lower 2 and 8. You can get Eb that you would get on the 4th string by using the 2nd string. |
There's something nice about the sound of string 4 lowering in chord movements and and melody lines. The raising of string 2 to E so you can get the E to D# lower might work, but then you lose the D on string 2, which is somewhat of an important change. I wouldn't do it, but you may like it.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Charles Dilworth
From:
California, USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2019 9:41 am Knee Lever
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Ok.
Ill try it both ways and see. Ive just started doing a lot of 6th chords and Im really enjoying the effect of the knee lever on that lonely low E
Also, Ive been looking at real grownup guitars - especially double necks, and the photos of the mechanisms terrify me - having had to do fairly major surgery on my little MSA courtesy of Tom Bradshaw.
thanks all around again! |
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