| Author |
Topic: Will Carter ever make a keyless? |
Curt Langston
|
Posted 2 May 2006 1:09 pm |
|
I've heard not. I sure wish they would consider it. IMHO that is the only improvment that I would do to a Carter.
John, let us know.
 |
|
|
 |
Mike Ester
From:
New Braunfels, Texas, USA
|
Posted 2 May 2006 6:08 pm
|
|
Straight from the FAQ on the Carter Web site:
Question: Have you ever considered making a keyless model? I understand this helps to reduce the weight of a steel. What are the pros and cons about a keyless model I should consider?
Answer: Actually, we have considered offering a Keyless Model and we have researched it thoroughly. We have concluded that the keyless "keyhead" sacrifices too much control of the overtones, which give the Carter the characteristic sounds it has. So, we do not plan to make a keyless model for that reason.
In our opinion, while the lack of overtone control will not hurt you on a keyless guitar, it will not help you, either.
Weight really is not a consideration on the Carter since we have already removed the weight from places, which truly do not need it. Therefore, we do not have to sacrifice overtone control by using a keyless "keyhead".
By the way, most all of the manufacturers who offer keyless guitars also make a heavy guitar (even with the keyless "keyhead" on it).
The shorter body, which the keyless "keyhead" allows, does not reduce weight enough to warrant the sacrifices (overtone control being the major one) it would require. If you look at where the real weight of the guitar is, you will find it is not in the cabinet -- it is everywhere else.
We continually look at different ways to improve the sound and mechanism of the Carter. [This message was edited by Mike Ester on 02 May 2006 at 07:10 PM.] |
|
|
|
Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
|
Posted 2 May 2006 7:32 pm
|
|
| Well, well ,well. Quite interesting. Oh, but tone is in the hands I thought. This is a very intelligent answer. As Gomer Pyle would say, "Shazam!". [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 02 May 2006 at 08:33 PM.] [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 02 May 2006 at 08:34 PM.] [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 02 May 2006 at 08:43 PM.] |
|
|
|
Frank Parish
From:
Nashville,Tn. USA
|
Posted 2 May 2006 7:46 pm
|
|
| It sounds logical and besides, they don't want to build an ugly guitar! If it ain't broke...... |
|
|
|
Curt Langston
|
Posted 2 May 2006 7:55 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
| This is a very intelligent answer. |
How would you know? All you can do is garble some incomprehensible nonsense.
You are about as intellectual as a box of rocks.
Don't worry, you'll never own a keyless, because you are not smart enough to see the pros and cons.
You remind me of Dustin Hoffman as the Rain Man, with your unintelligent ramblings.
It is clear you are closed minded on the keyless, so why don't you go pop a few 3rd strings on your old longhead, low tech, unstable tuning, asymmetrical steel. |
|
|
|
Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
|
Posted 2 May 2006 8:17 pm
|
|
| I only have one question. How the H#ll do you CONTROL overtones? |
|
|
|
Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
|
Posted 2 May 2006 8:27 pm
|
|
| Thanks for the personal attack Curt. No where have I personally attacked you, and you just violated forum rules. |
|
|
|
Henry Nagle
From:
Santa Rosa, California
|
Posted 2 May 2006 10:45 pm
|
|
| Kevin. I believe if you stated your opinions as opinions and perhaps a bit more gently, Curt would not feel compelled to "attack" you. [This message was edited by Henry Nagle on 02 May 2006 at 11:46 PM.] |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
|
|
|
Brian Henry
|
Posted 3 May 2006 2:06 am
|
|
| Curt, Argueing with Bud Carter, (who has been making pedal steels for over 40 years MSA, MCI, Carter) is akin to arguing with Buddy Emmons over tone. It is pure assanine. How many guitars have you made? How many thousand have you sold? How long have you been in business?? |
|
|
|
A. J. Schobert
From:
Cincinnati, Ohio,
|
Posted 3 May 2006 3:18 am
|
|
| I would guess that curt isn't argueing with bud carter. |
|
|
|
Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
|
Posted 3 May 2006 4:25 am
|
|
| Henry, I believe I have the right to state my opinions the way I want to. I attacked no one here. Don't tell me how to speak on the forum. Mr. Langston, maybe you want to personally attack Bud Carter or John Fabian. Go ahead and try it. You'll just dig a deeper hole for yourself. You've already shown who you are and your character. By the way Tony overtones effect tone. It amazes me how uninformed people come on the forum looking for technical answers, and when its answered succinctly by a master builder himself, they resort to personal attacks. You don't argue with Bud Carter about the design features of the Carter guitar. The answer they gave above about keyless steel guitars and Crater is right on and exact. So go ahead and rant Curt. TB, that is my point exactly. Thank you. Mike Ester, thanks for that post. It was brilliant and very informative. [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 03 May 2006 at 05:28 AM.] [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 03 May 2006 at 05:29 AM.] [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 03 May 2006 at 05:30 AM.] [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 03 May 2006 at 05:32 AM.] [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 03 May 2006 at 05:32 AM.] |
|
|
|
Curt Langston
|
Posted 3 May 2006 4:48 am
|
|
| Quote: |
| Mr. Langston, maybe you want to personally attack Bud Carter or John Fabian. Go ahead and try it. You'll just dig a deeper hole for yourself. You've already shown who you are and your character. |
See what I mean, goofy?
I simply asked whether John might condider making a keyless.
You confuse your delusion with reality.
That is not an attack, that is fact.
 |
|
|
|
Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
|
Posted 3 May 2006 4:52 am
|
|
I'm not arguing with anybody, but I have a different take on overtones. Tony's link says percussive instruments "... may have resonant frequencies which are not whole number multiples of their fundamental frequencies. They are said to have non-harmonic overtones."
Pianos have non-singing string lengths from the capo (nut) to the tuning pins. On fine pianos, they are damped with string braid since sympathetic vibration can't be controlled and inharmonicity is thought to be undesirable.
The hammer strike is at 1/7 the string length to eliminate the undesirable seventh harmonic, but the lower order harmonics are still present.
(Harmonic content on a psg string will vary depending on where the string is plucked.)
The sympathetic vibrations in a keyhead may be a component of the manufacturer's desired sound, but I'm not sure overtones is the correct word for that. Be that as it may, the effect is negligible to the ear, but measurable, as in Ed Packard's work.
But if 'pure' tone in a steel string is what you're after, the extremely short string segments in a keyless head will accomplish that.
It's all about preferences, I guess.
|
|
|
|
Curt Langston
|
Posted 3 May 2006 4:53 am
|
|
| Quote: |
| Curt, Argueing with Bud Carter, (who has been making pedal steels for over 40 years MSA, MCI, Carter) is akin to arguing with Buddy Emmons over tone. |
tb, no one is arguing with Bud Carter or Buddy. You might do well to go and read my original post before you too start showing your level of intelligence.
Geez. Read the posts FIRST, then respond. |
|
|
|
Curt Langston
|
Posted 3 May 2006 4:57 am
|
|
quote:
But if 'pure' tone in a steel string is what you're after, the extremely short string segments in a keyless head will accomplish that.
Indeed! |
|
|
|
Adrienne Clasky
From:
Florida, USA
|
Posted 3 May 2006 6:53 am
|
|
I have a Carter U12. When I play a Memphis vamp and release the knee lever I can damp the sound by picking blocking. When I don't, and I build up real speed, not only do I hear the cool sound of the pedals being released, but a third triad of notes floats through, as if I am also playing an octave above the notes I have picked. My husband noticed this through his drumming. Is that overtones? It's very beautiful.
On the other hand, I cry each time I have to change a string. That makes a keyless so tempting, should I win the lottery this weekend.
Very interesting post, Charlie!
I'm not sure if this is what is meant by "overtones" or not, and it is just one more factor in considering the keyless versus keyed, though I do not believe there is a right answer to this debate. S |
|
|
|
Mike Ester
From:
New Braunfels, Texas, USA
|
Posted 3 May 2006 7:42 am
|
|
I prefer the traditional look of keyheads, but I can also appreciate the simplistic beauty and genius of the keyless design.
Different strokes, I reckon. |
|
|
|
