Question for Universal Players re: Raising B string 1/2 step

Chuck Hamilton · From: Flower Mound, Texas, USA

On a D-10 C6 neck I raise both high C strings (strings 3 and 7 on C6, equivalent to strings 5 and 9 on my universal), just like pedal 8 does for the middle C string (C6 string 7,) but I use a knee lever. With this I can get a major chord on strings 2 through 8 at 3 frets above the open fret (or with pedal 5 a 6th, or a Dom 7 if I include open G string); it's a very nice voicing and the point is it gives me some good options when sliding between positions.

On a guitar with universal tuning and only 3 raises, raising the high B string (equivalent of the high C string on C6) is not an option because all the raises are used up by the A pedal, C pedal and pedal 7. I know I could reach way over to the left and hit pedal A and the vertical lever to split the B string and get a half step raise, but: 1. That's a long way to move in a hurry and then get back to pedals 5 through 8; 2. it's very hard to combine that with hitting pedal 5 at the same time (to get the 6th tone of the chord).

The other option is to go up 2 more frets to 5 frets above the open position and hit pedal 7 to get another voicing of the 6th chord or the dom7 (while raising either E string). I'm just looking for another and better voicing on the way there if possible and pedal 7 only works for a high voicing of the 6th chord on the higher strings (C6 strings 6 through 2).

So how do you Uni players deal with this? What other voicings are available near there? I know that you have a 6th or dom7 at 2 frets above the open chord position if you release the lever lowering the E's and hit the A and B pedals (and include the F# string, the 6 tone), is that the best option for another voicing of the major chord in that vicinity? Again, that's a long reach when you are thinking C6 (technically B6) and hovering over strings 5-8, and I use an E lock lever usually, but maybe I need to quit doing that? May be that to be a good uni player I just have to learn to move from pedal A to pedal 8 and back again in a hurry? Any input is welcome.
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Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I use the Day setup on the first three pedals so that A is right next to 5.

That might not be an option for you, Chuck. I was already playing Day before I switched to uni.
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Chris Reesor · From: British Columbia, Canada

Chuck, I sympathize with you fully on this. I am seeking all the functions of Buddy E's C6 5x4 setup on a S12 uni, and have come to the conclusion that a center KL group for use with the E lowers locked is the way to go; I have it all laid out and I'm waiting for some parts from Excel in Japan to install it. My Superb has a 5 up/5 down changer and so can handle this. Ian has gone in a similar direction.

I'll be documenting this here when it all comes together.

Of course this doesn't help answer your question.

Tell us a little more about your U12 guitar, please; make, copedent, etc., and perhaps some more useful suggestions might emerge.
Do you use both feet on the pedals? That is relevant, too.

Cheers, CR.
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Excel Superb U12, MIJ Squier tele, modified Deluxe Reverb RI, Cube 80XL, self built acoustics & mandolins

Chuck Hamilton · From: Flower Mound, Texas, USA

Thanks Ian and Chris -- currently I play a Williams U-12, which I love except for this one issue. I have started playing with both feet recently (only for pedal 8 with the right foot so far), but takes some getting used to. Getting on and off the volume pedal without a big surge up or down in volume remains a challenge as well.

The Williams only has 3 raises and 3 lowers. Funny you mention Excel because I've contacted them about a new guitar and am hoping it will be ready soon and solve some of my issues.

As for 2-pedal chords requiring both feet, here's all I've found so far: Pedal 8 and 5 at position 3 above open = 6th; I guess that's all! What others are there (which require 2 feet -- I know about combo pedals 5 and 7, 6 and 7).

Thanks!
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Chris Reesor · From: British Columbia, Canada

Chuck, you can possibly use one of Tom Bradshaw's little doohickeys to get another raise if you have a spare lower hole available on string 5. You will have to get the details from someone else though, since I've never done it myself.

That P5&7 13th chord is the main one; it gives you the root again on string 5. If you have traditional P4, you can get the same 13th voicing without the root on top of course; as a bonus it's not too hard to half pedal P4 for a nice 7#5 voicing in this position.

(My lock lever lowers 4&8 to D# and 2 to C#. I had all three plus the lock on the E lower lever, RKR, but it was too long and stiff a pull for a lot of E9 stuff, so I took that off and installed another cross shaft just for the lock lever including the 2nd string lower. I can deal with the lack of the whole tone lower easier than the stiff E lower lever.)

I put another raise on P8 to get it back up to D, which can be useful to get that b7 up high with P6.

I find jumping back and forth between P8 and P5 kind of awkward from the left KL group so I do that with the right foot on P8. Matter of fact, I seldom use my left foot on P8.

As for the volume pedal issue, keep at it, it will come. I personally think mastering volume pedal use is one of the hardest parts of pedal steel.
Fortunately volume swells and sustain over long lines are not as important in the stuff I try to play with the sixth tuning locked in. Not only that but I think it is important to get control of dynamics with the right hand rather than just relying on the pedal to take care of it.

Love to hear what you are getting Mitsuo to build you; Ian would too, most likely.

Ciao, CR.
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Excel Superb U12, MIJ Squier tele, modified Deluxe Reverb RI, Cube 80XL, self built acoustics & mandolins

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I too would like an 8x8 S12U that works perfectly and sounds great.
I will be at the Dallas show next week and will look closer at the Excel brand, for this purpose.
In the mean time...
I added a knee lever to my C-pedal cross shaft, and added a pull rod to string 9. It is basically a LKL2, and is easy to use without touching the F lever.
So my C pedal can be the C pedal, or I can completely back off the string 4 raise, and tune 5 and 9 to only raise to C.
My LKL2 is then the B to C raise you are talking about (I hope I read this right!).
This is not something I do at gigs.
At home when I am playing alot of 6th stuff I can have that B to C change on LKL2 using the C-pedal cross shaft, and that gives me all the half tone raises and lowers on strings 5 and 6 on my Uni.
If you don't have an extra knee lever hanging around, you can use an adjustable wrench or vice grips or a small monkey wrench as an instant knee lever. Laughing

Generally speaking, The whole thing about S12U (ala Jeff Newman) is to be able to play anything you typically play at a bar gig, without having to use a D10. 7x5 S12U's do this and work perfectly.

Chris Reesor · From: British Columbia, Canada

Tricky dodge there Pete. My way to get the string six half step lower is just back off the tuner on the whole step lower, which I would hate to do without for E9 stuff.

100% agree on what a basic 7x5 uni gets you, which is great, but more modern and capable mechanisms, (more raises and lowers, split screws, etc.) means we can now take it far beyond what could be done in the 70's, and dare I say it beyond even the functions of a less than fully loaded D10.

Beware that Excel booth, Pete. Smile

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Excel Superb U12, MIJ Squier tele, modified Deluxe Reverb RI, Cube 80XL, self built acoustics & mandolins

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I like the string 6 full tone lower too, and have my Steel set so I can tune that note to either G or F#.
Lately I like the feel and sound of sliding back 2 frets and using the A pedal and string 7 for that change, and currently have the G# lowers tuned to G.

Johnie King · From: Tennessee, USA

I know nothing but I love that raise on a knee Zane Beck had the raise onl lKL on his 12 string steels. Itâ€™s all Chinese to me

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I thought I'd elaborate on my previous rather curt post. The act of superimposing a B6 tuning on an E9 causes us to marvel at how many strings are the same, but also presents the problem of how to manage the string 8/9 area.

I ditch the 9th string D and fill it in by lowering the E above (more appropriate in B6 mode) or raising the B below (more E9-ish). When I turn my attention to the pedals it occurs to me that a traditional pedal 6 does very little. It raises the 4th string a half step when you just lowered it, and it lowers the 8th string a second half step and is asking to be put on the same lever. If you don't like Â½-stops forget it, but I love it.

That means that with P6 off the floor I have P5 & P7 as my home position on B6. This is in many ways similar to the A & B pedals.

I also realise that the only part of P8 we use regularly is the 9th string raise to B#, so I popped it on the centre vertical. Thus I can manage any combination of pedals 5, 6, 7, & 8 with one foot.

My regular means of raising string 5 half a step is with the A pedal and either vertical. On the Excel I can also raise it with the nameless pedal next to pedal 8, which I think is what the OP was partly about. There aren't enough raises to do that on the Williams, but I love it anyway.

If you're wondering about the 4th raise on string 9 on the Williams, it's got by attaching the pull to the first lower then bridging across to the C# so it operates as a split.

With this setup I can work my way through any E9 or C6 tab I come across as it has all the basic changes that writers assume.
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Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

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