Excel Superb model Scale lengths

Leo Grassl · From: Madison TN

Does anyone know when Excel stopped making their "Superb" model guitars with a
25 1/2 " scale? They come standard with 24 1/8" scale now but can be ordered with the 25 1/2 upon request.

Thanks,

Leo G

John Sluszny · From: Brussels, Belgium

Just curious ! What difference does it make ? Thanks !

Chris Reesor · From: British Columbia, Canada

The 25 1/2 scale is now a $150 option according to Mitsuo three days ago.
i know that doesn't exactly answer your question Leo, but it is the best I can do ATM.

John, with standard gauge strings, you get higher tension, most noticeable on the low B string. Better note definition and twang on those lowest notes, as well as somewhat less sensitivity to variations in bar pressure.

In my opinion, 24 1/8 is too short a scale for a low B, never mind with the boohwah pedal. Not a problem for E9 or ext E9.

The higher tension could cause string breakage issues with a conventional changer, but not with Mitsuo's design. Mine has yet to break a string in the seven years I've had it. I don't play it as much as many people, but on the other hand, I don't change strings very often, either.
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Leo Grassl · From: Madison TN

John,

Some people say there is more sustain with a longer scale. That has not been my personal experience with my non Excel brand guitars. Bill Stafford posted on this forum about the sound being brighter because of the higher tension on the strings with a 25 1/2 " scale. As I understand it there were excessive string breakage issues with the G# .11 gauge string on the 25 1/2 " guitars.
Apparently a .12 gauge string was the solution to this problem. ( I must add however that this has not been my personal experience given that I have never owned an Excel. This is just information I gathered)

Leo Grassl · From: Madison TN

Thanks Chris,

That is good info anyway. Do you have to use .12 gauge strings for your high G# on your E9 tuning in order to avoid string breakage?

Thanks,

L G

Chris Reesor · From: British Columbia, Canada

Leo, my Excel is 12 string E9/B6, and I've been using Jagwire 11.5 on the third since day one. Haven't tried a 12 or any other brands.

As for Bill Stafford's comment, I'd say you gain on the lowest notes but give away a little sweetness on the highest. Every change is a tradeoff, right?

For sustain, I believe other factors than scale length have much more effect.

Scale length is a major parameter in stringed instrument design, as any luthier will tell you.
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Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

When I ordered my 12-string uni from Mitsuo in Dec 2017 he said it would be 24Â½" which seemed reasonable and I didn't query it. When it arrived it was 25Â½" which feels absolutely right as it turns out so I never raised the issue.

Looking again at the Fuzzy website I see that 24â…›" is standard and 25Â½" is an option. I now think that because it was going to have a boowah pedal he determined that 25Â½" was the only choice, and his 24Â½" must have been a typo. Any extra charge would have been included in the quote as it was not deemed an option.
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Mike Vallandigham · From: Martinez, CA

My 2008 Superb S-12 (e9/c6) is long scale.
My 2018 Superb S-12 (e9/c6) is short scale.

I bought the '08 from Scotty's, and I ordered the short scale on my new 2018 model.

They sound different, but I don't think it's the scale length. The '08 has a TrueTone, and the '18 an Excel single coil.

I wouldn't say the bass notes are better on the long scale, if they are, it's very minor, and probably will suit different tastes.

I can feel the tension difference when playing, but it's not a problem.

If I had to pick again, I'd go short scale. The compactness, the feel of the strings, and the familiar fret spacing.

Of course you can get used to anything.

John Sluszny · From: Brussels, Belgium

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Is the 25 1/2" scale a keyless model?
Erv

Chris Reesor · From: British Columbia, Canada

Yes, Erv. The Superb is his keyless model.

I just checked the Excel website, and it no longer lists keyed models. This is a fairly recent change.
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Excel Superb U12, MIJ Squier tele, modified Deluxe Reverb RI, Cube 80XL, self built acoustics & mandolins

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Chris,
Yes, that's kind of what I figured.
A a keyed 25 1/2" scale would be a real string breaker. Very Happy

Erv

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Except this one isn't.
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Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

When Buddy Emmons was going to come out with the Emmons guitar, he experimented with different scale lengths and settled on the 24 1/4" scale. On a keyed guitar, he determined that any longer scale length would lead to excessive string breakage.
On a keyless guitar, it's a different matter.
Erv

Larry Allen · From: Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii

Leo...2000 Superb. 251/2â€...2010 Superb 251/2â€.....2015 Superb 241/8â€...all keyless, all consistently the same, strings NEVER break, all have Telonics PUs...all Ext E9...all S10...Larry
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John Goux · From: California, USA

I donâ€™t think you can compare scale lengths between a keyless and a keyed guitar.

On a keyless, scale length and string tension ends at the nut.

A keyed guitar, the nut acts as a virtual fret, but the string continues as much as 3 or 4 inches beyond to the tuner. That is is the scale length, not the roller nut.

I believe a G# on a keyless, and the same note on a keyed guitar will have different tensions, and therefore different tone and string breakage.
The keyed guitar would have higher tension on that G#, because of the added scale length to the keyed tuner.
Hopefully someone has done the math on the different string tensions.

If this is indeed the case, Iâ€™d pick the longer scale length on a keyless guitar.
John

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

The pitch of a string depends on the tension and the vibrating length. Counter-intuitive though it may be for some, the tension in a given string is the same regardless of how much of it lies beyond the nut.

There is generally less movement over the nut in a keyless design, but it's actually the changer that's kinder to the strings by bending them less. This is true of the Williams also.
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Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

I canâ€™t comment on string tension being more or less with a keyed guitar as opposed to a keyless, but will comment on scale length.....My Excel was 25 1/2 inch scale length.....The tighter tension was surely noticeable to me ....The feel was different for one....It was everything mentioned, most notably the lower strings having a â€œpunchâ€ to them rather than a muddy â€œthudâ€ to them....The sustain seemed better also.....I do remember that pesky 3rd string however....It was the only drawback on that steel....Certain brand strings would work fine....I was told from the fine folks at Scottyâ€™s to also use newer strings.....They even sent me a few that did the trick.....I miss that steel....At the time I was trying out various pedal steels....I know now that I should have kept it ! Live and learn !!......Jim

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Chris Reesor · From: British Columbia, Canada

Ian is correct about the scale length/string tension relationship for a given pitch. Extra lengths of string beyond the bridge or nut do not affect this.

However, when you raise a string's pitch by increasing the tension, that string stretches, of course. The lengths beyond the vibrating length must stretch too. The reverse is true when tension is reduced for a lower.

So, it stands to reason that the changer must actually move farther to achieve a given pitch change on a keyed guitar, accelerating the metal fatigue that causes breakage at the changer.

I believe that it is the more linear rather than rotary motion of the Excel changer that is a more important factor in the apparent freedom from string breakage reported.

Anecdotal evidence, I know, but until someone designs and executes proper experimental tests, that is all we have.
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