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Topic: Question on Buddy Emmons E9 |
Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Tony Dingus
From:
Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2019 8:00 pm |
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If I remember correct, Buddy heard Grady Martin play a lick and lowering the 6th was the way to play it. Sometimes it's how we get to the note such as F#.
Tony |
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Greg Milton
From:
Benalla, Australia
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Posted 20 Feb 2019 8:40 pm
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Hi Dennis,
This change is so good I don't know where to start explaining it! For starters, it is like using the A pedal in the no-pedals position (i.e. raising the 2 scale tone to 3 and vice versa) only more useful because you can then also combine it by raising the 3 to a 4 with the B pedal.
The other obvious thing about it is that when combined with the E lowers it is another inversion down from the pedals-down position only two frets down instead of four frets like the A/F position, and a different way of getting the flattened 7 (releasing the F# lower and raising pedal B, instead of the A/F position of releasing the A pedal). If you also lower the B to A with a half Franklin pedal then you get another way to get the flattened 7 note.
Check out this old thread for more info:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=286693&sid=b9dcfeea34eeb2aa5d7c656984c3ed74
Greg |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 20 Feb 2019 9:12 pm
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On the 6th string G#=>F# lower -
There's the obvious use as a whole-step lower/raise in melody (which is not the same as hitting the 7th string or the 8th string - it ain't the meat, it's the motion).
Chordally, it's most useful opposite the E (E=>Eb) lever. Alone, it gives a 1sus2. With the E-lever, gives a nice 5 chord to the straight no-pedals 1 chord. Raise back the E-lever to give the 5sus4 chord. Raise back the 6th string to give a nice 3min chord.
Split the G=>F# lever with the B pedal, just those two gives the obvious 1min chord. Now engage the E-lever and get a nice 7, b3, or 5 augmented chord. Add the A pedal for more yet.
All this and more with smooth transitions without having to move the bar. Of course, doing this out of the "1" position and combining with other moves gives a ton of new ways to do things. This is one of my "essential" changes - if I only had 3 levers with E/F-levers essential, I'd find a way to get a 2nd string D#=>D lower somehow without losing this change on the 3rd lever.
I realize that you get the note on string 7. I also realize that many great players do things very differently, and there are definitely a lot of different valid approaches. But for me, this single, simple change opens up a lot of stuff that I would not want to live without. Aside from switching LKR and RKL and adding the common string 1 F#=>G# and string 2 D#=>E changes, Buddy's basic setup is pretty much what I have settled on for E9. |
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Chris Reesor
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 21 Feb 2019 12:31 am
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Buddy started using this change back in his pushpull days, with no splits, right? Well it was good then, but with the advent of all pull guitars with splits, it became a must have change for many, many players. Me included.
The main thing is this lever must be on the other knee from your E lowers. And it probably works better with a plain sixth string, it is kind of a long pull with a wound string.
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 21 Feb 2019 2:59 am
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| The 6th string full tone drop was put on my 71 Emmons PP back in early 72. When I had my Franklin built I had it put on along with the "split". One of my most used knee levers. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 21 Feb 2019 7:42 am
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As Dave M. Said, it's not the note it creates, it's what you can do with it. I like having the 4 notes available without having to move or slant the bar. Some good melody stuff there. It's my 3rd most used knee lever. I would rather dump my 2nd string lower lever before this on.
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 21 Feb 2019 8:07 am
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When people ask whether the 6th string lower is useful I just tell them that Buddy Emmons thought it was essential.
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 21 Feb 2019 8:27 am
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
| It's my 3rd most used knee lever. I would rather dump my 2nd string lower lever before this on. |
Me too.
| Chris Reesor wrote: |
| The main thing is this lever must be on the other knee from your E lowers. |
I would add it should also move in the opposite direction, especially if you play a lightweight instrument. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 21 Feb 2019 8:30 am
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| Prefer to lower 3d along with 6th string, and also synk the lowest G# string to these changes on my extended-E PSGs. |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Posted 21 Feb 2019 12:36 pm
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Just wanted to say a big thanks to everyone who answered (or will answer later). You've given me quite a lot of ideas and many new exciting things to try out 
I'm about 6 months into learning extended E9 and after arranging a couple Beatles and a Dead song, decided to take a critical look at my copedent vs what my books recommend. I always had the same pulls (what I call core E9) of ABC pedals, raise/lower E's knees (LKL & LKR) and half tone string 2 & 9 drops on RKR. What I used a lot for melodies that none of my books had was a string 2 half raise on RKL. Then I was looking at our collection of copedents and stumbled across Buddy's E9 and he had that same raise! Maybe I wasn't so crazy after all 
Anyway, I decided to take the plunge and altered my extended E9 around the core of Buddy's E9 to see where it takes me. The biggest differences are that I don't have an LKV for the Ab drop (though I found a thread that explained an alternate way to get the same drop on the main grips using B+F and dropping one fret back). The big difference that was completely mysterious to me was the RKL string 6 F# drop...so thanks again to everyone for helping me begin to understand why it's so valuable 
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 21 Feb 2019 3:55 pm
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Dennis, we finally get together for a picking party, I'll show you how I use all this stuff on my Mullen Ext. E9. I, too, have had that 6th string lower for years, wouldn't leave home without it. I use it with Es lowered for an open position V chord, and split with pedal B for minors, and split when using A+B for IV7 chords. Some other stuff as well.
It's unique to have it coupled with 2nd string raise to E. Anyone know if Big E used those together, or if it's a 2-fer on a a single lever?
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Chris Reesor
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 21 Feb 2019 4:51 pm
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Food for thought, eh, John?
I'd guess twofer without getting into it more deeply.
The obvious thing would be the old Emmons cross in a different position. With the F lever and C pedal on the fourth string and that raise plus open and half and whole step lowers on the second, you could open that unison out to anything from a minor second to a fourth, in stages. Lots of possibilities there.
I'd never thought about it, beyond "Geez, did Buddy forget something here?" since you usually see that raise along with the whole raise on string one.
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