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Topic: E9 Tuning To Equal Temperament (ET) |
Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 4 Aug 2024 11:28 am |
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I've been searching through the old tuning wars discussions to see what I could find out about tuning to ET.
(Please - No Tuning Wars Here!)
It appears that some of the "Straight Up" ET tuning folks, including Buddy Emmons, make vague references to tweaking the 3rds just a little bit.
I'm curious to know how much tweaking is actually done by those of you who are proponents of ET tuning.
Here is food for thought. Assume you set your little tuner to 440 and tune the E's to 440, with the pedals down.
Release the pedals and the tuner now reads 441.
Tune the notes like this, pedals up:
B 441
G# 440
E 441
Tune the notes like this, pedals down:
C# 439
A 440
E 440
That pesky F# could be tuned, pedals up, at 440...halfway between the B and C#.
Are these the types of slight adjustments you make when attempting to tune to ET?
_________________
Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat
Last edited by Lee Baucum on 4 Aug 2024 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 4 Aug 2024 8:09 pm
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yes, tuning the F#s to 440, halfway between the B and C# is what I've arrived at.
However, I relax the 3rds a little more than your model.
open
E 441
B 441
G# 439
AB down
A 440
E 440
C# 438
E lever engaged
B 441
D# 439
F# 440*
A and F lever
C# 438/9
E# 437
G# 438/9
Cab drop plays a role here. I don't use compensators.
*The 5th of the B triad (F#) is not ideal but I know where it is, and work with it.
FWIW, on a 6th tuning, I use the same approach wherein the roots and 5ths are 441 and the 3rds/6ths are relaxed about 8cents ( 439hz ). Works for me.
Ultimately though I think its in how you hear the intervals and extensions of a chord and how that translates through your tone bar, and intonation. Tuning systems are just starting points that sound right for any given player. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 4 Aug 2024 11:18 pm
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As a seasoned war correspondent I have observed that ET guys flatten their thirds a bit and JIers raise them.
So I'm not sure there's a real conflict.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2024 7:56 am Re: E9 Tuning To Equal Temperament (ET)
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| Lee Baucum wrote: |
That pesky F# could be tuned, pedals up, at 440...halfway between the B and C#.
Are these the types of slight adjustments you make when attempting to tune to ET? |
You got it. Every pedal steel tuning system I've seen (that wasn't strict ET on the 3rd intervals) flattened the F# strings slightly as an in-between compromise.
I tune very similar to Andrew (and Buddy Emmons, I guess): a base of ET, but relaxed thirds (-8 cents, or 2 Hz below whatever the root offset is). And then apply three adjustments to account for cabinet drop and cab raise in various positions-- that will maybe be different for each guitar, so it's a custom thing.
Before I put on compensators, I treated the 2 F# strings differently. This is personal preference based on which positions are used more often and the unfortunate need to prioritize. If you flatten the F# string more than just a few cents from what the open tuning is, it destroys the B chord in a hurry. Since I wanted to prioritize having that right in the lower octave of the tuning, I tuned 7 to the same offset as the open B string (and let cab drop help out in the pedals-down D and F#m chords).
As for the 1st string.... it sits halfway between the opposite ends of the spectrum. Actually, a few cents sharper than halfway; when cabinet drop kicks in with pedals-down, it helps out and ends up landing that string such that it's off of it's ideal target (against C#) about the same amount that's it's off of the other target (open-position B). It's still in error, but it's a minimized, equidistant error.
Maybe poke around and try somewhere a little north-of-middle until your ear finds the compromise sweet spot. For what you've listed, that should be slightly sharp of 'straight up.' Your F# won't be off against either of your two 'ideal' target notes by more than 3 cents (0.75 Hz).... and that's a really good outcome when we're talking F#'s. |
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