lowering 2nd stg to c#

chuck abend · From: Kansas City,Mo.64155 U.S.A.

I don't know why the 2nd stg C# tuning is standard,
When raising the 6th stg to B in unison with the 5th stg is much easier to play.Tuning the 2nd stg to D
is easier to press the knee lever.
The knee lever is too hard to press lowering to C#.
on RKR.My opinion Chuck

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I agree with you. That's why I do the C# on the "zero pedal".

Also, the lower to D is so useful. Most half-stops aren't firm enough to hit the D in tune, so many players don't get the full benefit of it.
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

My RKR will lower my 2nd from D# to C# but I don't care for the lack of feel in the half-stop so I have that lever wound off so it only lowers to a D. That's more useful to me with pedals down.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

I'm in the process of setting up someone's Carter and I'm setting up the dummy 11th finger for the half stop on the 2nd string and while I am not a fan of feelers, this is totally usable. I'm impressed.
It does not apply to me because I tune to open D and have separate levers for raise (D#) and lower (C#). Never used the dummy finger when I was playing my Carter.

Dave Hepworth · From: West Yorkshire, UK

I have the C# on one lever and the D on another .It works a treat too.These levers also work other strings too (1 6 7 9 ) and I get some very cool changes .I also have a LVK that raises 5 up to D in open position.
Regards Dave

Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

That's an interesting idea from Jon Light.
I've tuned that 2nd string to C# for 40 years with a raise to D/Eb on a knee, but as almost everyone here said that half stop is never quite on target. A little better on a raise than a lower, but still iffy!
My new Mullen with a half stop is better than any I had before but still and little bar slant is sometimes the cure.
Think I may give Jon's tuning a try in the future when I replan a copedent.
Thanks Jon! Very Happy

_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project.

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

I won't say that I recommend it. Or not recommend it. I've had the D natural for enough years that it is ingrained but there are enough times where I see the benefit of the D# native tuning. With 8 levers (and I use them all), I'm not shy about dedicated levers.

50/50 call about reinventing a concept that evolved with intelligence and logic. But with an alternative to the feeler stop as a motivation, that tips the scale for me.
Plus, the D>C# lower is on my E lower lever so that's not an extra lever.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I have, of course, spent time playing around with the whole-step lower on string 2 and can see myriad uses for it. But getting that 4th note 'on the fly' with A&B pedals down is, at this point, more important to me.

And I have no spare knee-levers, either, or perhaps I would assign a separate whole-tone drop.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Thanks for that tip, Richard. I've always shied away from messing with springs because I can't for life of me figure out a way to bend and shape them decently. My results are always sloppy looking. I welcome any pointers.

However, with a spare spring in hand in case I mangled this, I just did this and the results are not beautiful but they are effective. Definitely increased the feel by a few percent.

Tony Dingus · From: Kingsport, Tennessee, USA

I lower my 2nd string on the RKL using the 9th string lower as my half stop feel. I can feel the half stop a lot better than having it on the RKR. I think the straight pull on the levers moving left makes the half stop feel more solid. I like whole tone lower but I want the half tone lower too.

Tony

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

some guitars do the half stop better than others. Thats just the way it is !

Personally I couldn't imagine not having the half and the whole on the same lever. There are just too many OTHER phrases that come from other levers to kill one to split the 2nd string drops. Remember, each time we make a change, ped or lever in favor of ONE thing, we lose another.

I'm thinking we all use the A pedal half raise with no stop, at least there is a some sort of feel to the 2nd string half drop to put into our bag of tricks.

Its personal preference of course .
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Tom Cooper · From: Orlando, Fl

I just got my GS10 Emmons push pull back from shop.it came with 2nd string lower to C#. I am used to lower to dom 7th, but I want to give this a chance. Unison lick is fun. Sure there are other uses. I admit I have to be careful not to over shoot it. I think with time will be ok. Will see. Dont know if it has half stop. Just learning about this. Use the dom 7th a lot.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

FWIW, I was adamantly against half-stops for decades. In the past year, I found it necessary to add one to my new Sierra (by Ross Shafer). On my D6th, the lever raises my B strings to C and then C#. This would be like, on E9th, tuning the second string to C# and then raising it to D and D#.

I've been using it successfully, landing on the half within a few cents of perfect most of the time. Setting it firmly does make the full step change more of a conscious effort than a musical reflex, though. So it still feels like a trade-off. It's either that or sacrifice another pedal or level, which I'm unwilling to do.

Some people are happy with their E9th half-stop, but I wonder how many use one note a lot more than the other. I also wonder which note that would be.
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Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

I tried Jon Light's idea of the string tuned to D and put the raise and lower on separate knees for a day. There were some neat things in that for sure but.....
Maybe I'm just too old to learn new tricks and just didn't like it.
Guess I'm just so used to the way I've been doing it for so long that it's not easy to change.

I think most of my playing is from the pedals down position* so that second string in C# is so natural.
*Playing from the pedals down position so much is probably one of my bad habits! Whoa!

One more thing is that lowers are always a little stiffer than a raise. Maybe thats why a half stop is easier on my tuning?
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project.

chuck abend · From: Kansas City,Mo.64155 U.S.A.

I removed the RKR 9th stg pull rod and put it in the 6th stg raise hole.To raise to B in unison with the 5th stg B. on RKR.I then tuned the second stg to D lower.Set all stops and throws and guitar plays great with Softer pedal and knee lever action.Note :My setup is Day rock 2 ped to 3 // The Emmons rocks 2 to 1 C# raise.
Engage RKR to put stg 5 and 6 in unison and press B pedal,Then rock into C# as you let off RKR unison
You get that way to survive intro.It's a lot
simpler to play with easier knee lever action.
I never used the old fashion way 9 C# or 2nd stg C#
My setup works much better,I think.
On Emmons setup engage RKR and rock into 1st pedal
as you release unison RKR for that way to survive intro. Best Regards Chuck Abend

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