Changing C6th to A6th on a Push-Pull

Mikiya Matsuda · From: San Francisco, California, USA

I'm considering changing the C6th neck on my Emmons push-pull to A6th (my main non-pedal tuning). My C6th currently has the 5 on top, so it'd just be a matter of dropping everything down.

I understand that these guitars can be especially sensitive to changes in string gauges, so before I embark on the lonely journey of string selection, has anyone (particularly on a push-pull) tried this conversion and which gauges did you settle on to retain the feel/action/timing of the standard C6th setup? I did come across an old post where Ron Lashley was quoted as advising against A6th on a push-pull, so I realize this may be a fool's errand.

I currently use the standard set of GHS roller wounds.

Thanks for your advice,

Mikiya
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Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Do you have an E9th neck?
Th AB pedals down position is A6th.
Compare the notes in your desired A6th tuning to the notes on E9 with pedals down.

Ian Worley · From: Sacramento, CA

If you're planning to directly transpose C6 down a minor third to A you're definitely going to need heavier strings to maintain the right feel. D'Addario has an online tool to find correct string gauges for a given scale length and string pitch. It's here: http://stringtensionpro.com/. FYI, the tool is a bit finicky using Firefox but works perfectly with Chrome.

There is a preset option under "Guitar" for pedal steel, and a tuning preset for C6 in the worksheet. If you fil out the worksheet to match your gauges it will tell you the actual tension of each string in pounds. Once you've transposed the pitches you just need to increase the string gauge until you get in the right ball park for tension. Most plain psg strings are in the 24-30 in/lbs range, wound strings in the 22-28 range.

I just ran this for my own edification, and with the exception of string 4, it comes out about right if you just shift each string from a standard C6 set up one, and add a new string for low C only. It's a big one, about 0.082", similar to a med A string on an electric bass. Bump string 4 up to a 0.026W or use a 0.024P will work better too.

So, 14-17-20-24P(or 26W)-30-36-42-54-70-82. Aside from the obvious string height issue on the low strings near the nut, I don't see any reason why this should be a problem on a PP. Let us know how it works if you do try it.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I personally would not tune my own push pull from C6th down A6th with new string gauges.
Instead, move the bar up to the right fret and let it rip!

Mikiya Matsuda · From: San Francisco, California, USA

Many thanks, Ian. That site has just the info I need. I'll report back.

Pete, I sure wish I could switch more fluently between C6th and A6th. Unfortunately, having to stop and think about the notes and fret positions gets in the way of improvising and making music--at least for me. I've seen plenty of players who don't seem to have that problem, but I'm not one of them. I've got an E9 neck on the steel, but even with AB pedals down, I'd be missing too many of the changes that a 6th neck offers.
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Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Mikiya
Make it easy on yourself. Get a lever (if you don't already have one) that raises your C notes to C#, then use it in combination with pedal 5. There's your open A6 tuning (root on s4) and you can switch to C6 just by releasing that combination. Easy transition. Matter of fact, I do it all the time. Every gig. I just think of that pedal/lever combination as being another position to work out of.
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