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Topic: National Grand Console |
Mark Helm
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2018 9:10 pm |
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I'm no expert and I'm always wanting to build my knowledge base. I was recently looking at a National Grand Console for sale and am wondering how you think it stacks up against, say, Fender Dual Pros, Stringmasters, and the Gibson Console Grand. I've only played one of them once, so I'm looking for more seasoned opinions...
Thoughts?
Also--does anyone know if Fender based their Stringmaster design on the National Console Grand? I'd never heard that before and I've read a fair amount about Stringmasters.
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Remington Steelmaster S8 w/ custom Steeltronics pickup. Vox MV-50 amplifier + an 1940's Oahu cab w/ 8" American Vintage speaker. J. Mascis Fender Squire Jazzmaster, Hofner Club bass, Ibanez AVN4-VMS Artwood Vintage Series Concert Size Acoustic Guitar. 1920s/30s Supertone Hawaiian-themed parlor guitar. Silvertone parlor guitar.
Last edited by Mark Helm on 12 Aug 2018 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Marc Bell
From:
Surat Thani, TH
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Posted 10 Aug 2018 10:38 pm
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Your 1950 Ricky B7 is pre Vietnam war and pre Iraq war but generally preWar refers to being pre world war 2 
As for the National Grand Console i can confirm they weigh a ton and have narrow string spacing. I won a legless (no sockets);one for a tickle over $200 on ebay less than 2 years ago and due to the weight and string spacing never even tried plugging it in. Looks awesome hung on the wall. A fantastic piece of art. Those totem inspired fingerboards are too cool. |
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Mark Helm
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2018 10:43 pm Ha!
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That was a typo.  The Rick B7 is actually 1940. Which still doesn't make it pre-war if you're referring to WWI!!! As to the National Grand Console.. that's what I figured...
But, you're right--the fingerboard's awesome.
_________________
Remington Steelmaster S8 w/ custom Steeltronics pickup. Vox MV-50 amplifier + an 1940's Oahu cab w/ 8" American Vintage speaker. J. Mascis Fender Squire Jazzmaster, Hofner Club bass, Ibanez AVN4-VMS Artwood Vintage Series Concert Size Acoustic Guitar. 1920s/30s Supertone Hawaiian-themed parlor guitar. Silvertone parlor guitar.
Last edited by Mark Helm on 11 Aug 2018 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Frank James Pracher
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2018 5:11 am
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A National isn't a Fender and vice versa .... If you are looking the sound of one, the other won't do..
All depends on what you're going for...
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"Don't be mad honey, but I bought another one" |
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Brad Davis
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2018 11:13 am
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The Nationals are cool and have their fans and players. They have a deco/mid-century fusion style going on and are good guitars.
But a Fender Stringmaster has nothing to do with them, that was purely the design of Leo & Co. (and Leo did have quite a bit of help and input). I really don't know what about a Grand Console anybody would think Fender borrowed, they look different as night and day and have completely different electronics. |
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Mark Helm
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2018 1:59 pm
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| Brad Davis wrote: |
| I really don't know what about a Grand Console anybody would think Fender borrowed, they look different as night and day and have completely different electronics. |
I couldn't find any evidence for that claim either.
_________________
Remington Steelmaster S8 w/ custom Steeltronics pickup. Vox MV-50 amplifier + an 1940's Oahu cab w/ 8" American Vintage speaker. J. Mascis Fender Squire Jazzmaster, Hofner Club bass, Ibanez AVN4-VMS Artwood Vintage Series Concert Size Acoustic Guitar. 1920s/30s Supertone Hawaiian-themed parlor guitar. Silvertone parlor guitar.
Last edited by Mark Helm on 11 Aug 2018 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nic Sanford
From:
Oklahoma
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Posted 11 Aug 2018 2:52 pm
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| Oh well, Mark. Buy it or don't buy it. It's not like his ad is going to convince anyone of anything false. This is the most informed group of steel shoppers on the planet. He may not be the most knowledgeable member, but I doubt he is trying to pull a fast one with statements that are easily debunked, right here, with a couple of easy searches. |
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Charles Stange
From:
San Francisco, California
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Posted 12 Aug 2018 9:57 am
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If you search just the description, it is not new and has been used before.
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Charles 'Skip' Stange |
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Mark Helm
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 12 Aug 2018 10:58 am Huh?
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| Charles Stange wrote: |
| If you search just the description, it is not new and has been used before. |
Don't think anyone thought it was new, Charles. Although, for some odd reason, Bob thought to mention that they "[weren't] making them any more." What vintage double-necks are still being manufactured by their original companies?!
_________________
Remington Steelmaster S8 w/ custom Steeltronics pickup. Vox MV-50 amplifier + an 1940's Oahu cab w/ 8" American Vintage speaker. J. Mascis Fender Squire Jazzmaster, Hofner Club bass, Ibanez AVN4-VMS Artwood Vintage Series Concert Size Acoustic Guitar. 1920s/30s Supertone Hawaiian-themed parlor guitar. Silvertone parlor guitar. |
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Nic Sanford
From:
Oklahoma
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Posted 12 Aug 2018 11:10 am
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| Charles obviously meant that the description had been used, and copied by the seller. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 12 Aug 2018 11:20 am
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I’ve bought and sold a least three National GC’s in past years and I wasn’t very impressed with them. They’re beautiful looking steels, awesome design and vibe, but not the same quality materials and construction as Fender and Gibson IMO. They were Valco products, the ones I had. Valco built guitars and amps primarily for the entry-mid level market. Keeping costs down and price down was a priority.
The National GC’s I had all had a somewhat mellow, soft tone. Not a biting tone like Fender. I think they are fine for mellow Hawaiian playing. But it’s not a guitar that I would want to play on a three or four hour gig. It always felt like a cheaply made guitar to me. Some players do like them though.
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My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Mark Helm
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 12 Aug 2018 8:25 pm National D8 on Sale for $629.00 at Guitar Center
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Just saw one on sale down from $899 to $629 at guitar center. Not sure what kind of shape it's in, but they're usually pretty good about sending pictures.
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/National/Vintage-1950s-1950s-National-Grand-Console-Double-Neck-Steel-Lap-Steel.gc
_________________
Remington Steelmaster S8 w/ custom Steeltronics pickup. Vox MV-50 amplifier + an 1940's Oahu cab w/ 8" American Vintage speaker. J. Mascis Fender Squire Jazzmaster, Hofner Club bass, Ibanez AVN4-VMS Artwood Vintage Series Concert Size Acoustic Guitar. 1920s/30s Supertone Hawaiian-themed parlor guitar. Silvertone parlor guitar. |
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Ted Duross
From:
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Charles Stange
From:
San Francisco, California
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 13 Aug 2018 6:15 am
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Obviously, I don’t speak for b0b, but when he suggested that you open your own thread to discuss the pros and cons of National totems, I think he meant it rhetorically, and his goal was to subtly keep you from bashing the guy’s for sale ad. Why are we doing it at all? This forum is supported, largely by for sale ads.
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Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 13 Aug 2018 8:13 am
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| Any other sales we can trash? |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 13 Aug 2018 8:29 am
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Doug,
Thread started as a rebuttal to the sales copy in the for sale section. Apparently some folks took exception to his description of the steel he has for sale.
But this one isn't the only one. Another guys steel was trashed because the membership felt his price was too high.
so it goes. |
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Brad Davis
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 13 Aug 2018 8:55 am
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I didn't even look at the ad, really wasn't aware of it. I certainly don't intend to trash or belittle it. But the one linked does offer this curious statement without any further explanation:
'the Grand Console was the National model that Fender "borrowed" from, in designing their Stringmaster steels, introduced in 1953.'
I really don't know what in blue blazes he's talking about and would be interested in being enlightened myself if anyone does. Beyond that I think the guitar in the classifieds can and should stand on its own merits, and there is no reason for anyone to avoid it if it is what they are looking for and they can negotiate an agreeable price. |
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Stefan Saal
From:
New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 13 Aug 2018 3:37 pm on the plus side
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I'd like to point out a few things about Grand Consoles on the plus side.
This is the first steel guitar I ever had:
https://jakewildwood.blogspot.com/2013/04/c1950-national-double-neck-grand.htm
I think I paid about $450 for it, including shipping.
I think it is a great entry level guitar for several reasons. First of all, with two manuals you get involved with alternate tunings right off the bat. With just one manual, a beginner will always be afraid to mess with tunings. But tunings are so important for really getting into steel. And two boards frees you up.
Then, it's a respectable instrument. Nobody is ever going to sneer at your National guitar. That's a good feeling when you are starting out. This particular one had a great voice, really good for playing along with Patsy Cline records. She never sneered at me. The Egyptian flying eyeball thing is very cool, so you feel like you are a part of the culture. Also it seemed like a sturdy thing to me.
In the end, I traded this to a friend who did a lot of work on my 1939 National Rosita. But that's another thing: When you are ready to move on, there will always be someone who wants your National Grand Console.
It's true that without legs, 45 minutes with a Grand Console on your lap will put your ankles to sleep and make you stagger when you get up. But I think if you are just getting into lap steel guitar, the National Grand Console is a wise and enjoyable choice. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 13 Aug 2018 6:55 pm
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I dunno - I don't think Lindley's Nationals have ever interfered with his playing or tone. For example, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAbbgSKUZB4. Or a little more laid back - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8y45mAGJRA. Of course, these are D6, not D8, and the pickups may be a bit sharper sounding on the 6.
I have had two of these D8 National Grand Consoles - Doug, maybe the first one I got was originally yours, I got it from Fretted Instrument Workshop in Amherst, oh, 20-25 years ago, before I really started playing steel. No legs, I ultimately traded it, yup, they're heavy on the lap. But I have one now with legs, still need to set it up. But it sounded pretty good when I checked it out.
I do find these out there pretty reasonably priced. But I also run into old Fenders fairly reasonably occasionally also.
On where to have discussions like this - definitely not on a For Sale thread, as b0b stated. But I see no reason not to discuss this kind of stuff on a thread like this one - if not here, where? This forum is probably the #1 marketplace of ideas about steel guitars. I think we can take b0b at face value when he says to, by all means, have these discussions, but not on a For Sale thread. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Mick Hearn
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 13 Aug 2018 11:43 pm
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The sound and construction of the steel is always a matter of choice. I tried a Fender and didn't like for what I was doing. As for the National - I get a pleasing sound from it to my ears and to others judging by the comments of the sound from previous posts and yet it is a stock guitar. I think as with all guitars you either like them or you don't. It's down to the player.
Have a listen to my post "Ten Thousand Years". If I would go to another guitar it would be my Sho-Bud 6139 with a set of C6 strings - but the National is lighter to carry about.
Or listen to this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grwo2q-27BU
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MSA Classic 12 string Universal, Remington Steelmaster D8, National D8 Console x 2, George Boards Lap Steel, National New Yorker. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Bill Groner
From:
QUAKERTOWN, PA
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Posted 14 Aug 2018 5:54 am
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Doesn't get any sweeter than that Mick.........NICE!
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Currently own, 6 Groner-tone lap steels, one 1953 Alamo Lap steel, Roland Cube, Fender Champion 40 |
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