| Author |
Topic: Thoughts on Dire Wolf. Deadhead Trigger warning. |
Neal Vosberg
From:
Tennessee, USA
|
Posted 19 Jul 2018 6:42 pm |
|
| I was just listening back to the Grateful Dead song Dire Wolf with new ears, since I've been at the steel for a bit. All things considered, I still think its impressive. However, knowing what little I know now, I think he overplayed. I would have kept the intro, kept the solo, but it seems like he just tries to outline every change and vocal line that it gets too much. To compare it to another song that brought the steel into the mainstream, Judy Collins "Someday Soon", Buddy has a verse or two that he pads the whole time, but if you listen carefully he lays out quite a bit as well. At least a verse if not two he is out. It was done masterfully. |
|
|
 |
Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
|
|
|
|
Neal Vosberg
From:
Tennessee, USA
|
Posted 19 Jul 2018 7:11 pm
|
|
| I knew there would be a rebuttal from an Oregonian! Former one here, Eugene for about 30 years |
|
|
|
Jim Robbins
From:
Ontario, Canada
|
Posted 19 Jul 2018 7:30 pm
|
|
Hal Rugg on the live version of 'Fist City', Lloyd Green on Sweetheart of the Rodeo, all kinds of Gram Parson's / FBB. Lots of great steel players play throughout the song if it makes sense. Listen to Garcia's steel on Stella Blue - about as restrained and effective as could be. There are different approaches for different arrangements and different effects.
PS I lived in Oregon for a few months teaching at Reed back in the day so trigger warning accepted. |
|
|
|
John Goux
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 19 Jul 2018 8:03 pm
|
|
Here is another fine Garcia steel track, “the Pride of Cucamongaâ€
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IFSnOZy955U
Not fair to compare Judy Collins “Someday Soon†to Grateful Dead “Dire Wolfâ€.
First, Buddy is arguably the greatest steel player of all time, been playing since he was a lad. This is one of his gems. On this well produced LA session he is sourounded by a stellar cast including Stills and James Burton.
Garcia had been playing steel a few years at this point. Let’s not forget that he co-wrote the song, and sings lead on it as well(and the lions share of the whole album). It’s a sparse arrangement of mostly acoustic instruments. No other stars to trade fills with. What he did was right for the song.
Both wonderful songs, perfectly produced in their own way, and both with great pedal steel performances.
No reason not to love ‘em both for what they are!
John |
|
|
|
Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
|
Posted 19 Jul 2018 8:14 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
| Here is another fine Garcia steel track, “the Pride of Cucamonga†|
It is actually John McFee playing the steel on that track John! 
_________________
Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
|
|
|
Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
|
|
|
|
John Goux
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 20 Jul 2018 12:06 am
|
|
Dave I noticed that in the YT comments. McFee was not credited on the album.
It’s an excellent performance regardless of who played it.
John
PS. I do remember reading an interview with Garcia, where he basically said it was too difficult to play both instruments well so he was letting PSG go. |
|
|
|
chuck lemasters
From:
Jacksonburg, WV
|
Posted 20 Jul 2018 3:53 am
|
|
| Forty years ago I spent hours with this song on the turntable beside my steel. Still sounds good to me. |
|
|
|
Eric Dahlhoff
From:
Point Arena, California
|
Posted 20 Jul 2018 7:15 am both
|
|
| John Goux wrote: |
No reason not to love ‘em both for what they are!
John |
I love them both 
And sure wish I could play that sweetly! 
_________________
"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan) |
|
|
|
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 20 Jul 2018 8:32 am
|
|
| John Goux wrote: |
| PS. I do remember reading an interview with Garcia, where he basically said it was too difficult to play both instruments well so he was letting PSG go. |
John McFee doesn’t seem to have had a problem with it. Plus fiddle & mandolin, and singing. He could probably make music with a Vitamix.
Rusty Young more or less dropped pedal steel after he became a bandleader/frontman/songwriter. I know Jerry Garcia said what he said, but I believe he meant something a little more complicated.
Last edited by Fred Treece on 21 Jul 2018 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
|
Posted 20 Jul 2018 9:36 am
|
|
You have to remember, Garcia was a huge Clarence White fan. If you hear CW on his B-Bender tele and put it next to Jerry's PSG playing, you can really hear the similarities in phrasing and how much and where he plays.
I know some people think Clarence overplayed, too.......but that's in the context of more restrained country radio focused songs. That wasn't what these guys were going for.
FWIW, I think Jerry also sounds a lot like Mooney. |
|
|
|
Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
|
Posted 21 Jul 2018 9:25 am
|
|
"Dire Wolf" was one of the first steel tunes I ever heard, & I have no problem with someone overplaying steel as long as it is tasteful, which Jerry's playing is on that particular song.
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
|
|
|
Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
|
Posted 21 Jul 2018 5:07 pm
|
|
Garcia’s playing is so evocative and deeply musical that I am usually carried away before I am able to analyze it.
_________________
Bob |
|
|
|
Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
|
Posted 21 Jul 2018 6:27 pm
|
|
| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
| Garcia’s playing is so evocative and deeply musical that I am usually carried away before I am able to analyze it. |
Well stated.. I have always felt the exact same way.. Jerry was not technician on steel, but his musical sensibilities overcame any technical deficiencies he may have had.. He had a great "inner clock" and was very tasteful.. He just knew what would fit.. His very unique, very distinctive tone on that old ZB helped as well...bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
|
|
|
Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
|
Posted 22 Jul 2018 1:34 am
|
|
| Haven't listened to that in years - my favorite Dead album - reminds me of mis-spent youth on hot Carolina summer nights in the woods with girls in hippie dresses. |
|
|
|
Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
|
|
|
|
Pete McAvity
From:
St. Louis, Missouri USA
|
Posted 28 Jul 2018 7:39 am
|
|
Buddy Cage didn't lay back much on NRPS stuff, and no toes get stepped on.
_________________
Excel Superb D10, Sarno Black Box or Freeloader, Goodrich L120, Boss DD5, Baby Bloomer, 1965 Super Reverb chopped to a head, feeding a mystery PA cab w/ a K130.
They say "thats how it goes". I say "that ain't the way it stays!" |
|
|
|
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
|
Posted 28 Jul 2018 7:48 am
|
|
My take on Dire Wolf (with some necessary digression):
Jerry Garcia was to the pedal steel what John Duffey was to the mandolin.
Both of them played in tune, and in time, but almost EVERY other player would have to say "I don't think I'd have put that there."
BUT in the context of the rest of the song, and the band they're in at the time, what they played WORKED.
It may be saying something from out of left field, but it's saying something interesting.
Look at the next album from the Dead (American Beauty).
I don't know of a single steel player who would have put those lines in Sugar Magnolia: we'd have put something different, more 'steely'. But those were some cool lines.
Dire Wolf was overplayed because they wanted that sound.
PS: as a further digression, I talked to Sonny Osborne in the late 90s about all those records where I thought (and still do) that Hal Rugg overplayed, even pushing Sonny's banjo aside. Sonny said something like "of course he was. Because he was told to, and we were happy that he did. We sold a lot of bluegrass records to country fans because he was."
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
|
|
|
Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
|
Posted 28 Jul 2018 9:07 am
|
|
Back in what we call classic country, their was a lot of what we call "over playing". On record and live. We all loved it. It never really took away from the singer or the song.
Loretta Lynn was mentioned. Listen to her records. Hal Rugg was all over the place. Live, Bob Hempker (I imagine) was expected to cover the licks on the record. He did an excellent job with Loretta. He and David Thornhill were my favorite steel/ guitar player combo.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
|
|
|
