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Topic: Did you ever see a Gibson Pedal Steel? |
Nick Reed
From:
Russellville, KY USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2005 7:15 pm |
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Found this BLAST from the PAST on Ernie Cawby's website, It's an old Gibson ELECTRA-HARP. Now ain't that a hoot! Something any vintage Steel Guitar collector would love to have.
Is this guitar a left handed model, or were they just built bass-ackwards?
[This message was edited by Nick Reed on 24 November 2005 at 12:42 PM.] |
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T. C. Furlong
From:
Lake County, Illinois, USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2005 8:46 pm
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Hey Nick, Here is some history of Gibson pedal steels. The Electraharp S-8 with 6 pedals was introduced in early 1941. It had 4 pedals in 1949. It was renamed EH-630 in 1956 and discontinued in 1967. There was also a 6 pedal EH-620 that was introduced in 1955 also discontinued in 1967. There was a 4 pedal S-6 called the EH-610 that was out from 1957-1966. An 8 pedal EH-820 as pictured in your post was available from 1961-1966. There was also a T-8 model called a Multiharp that had 6 pedals that worked on the middle neck only. These old Gibsons look left handed but they are right handed. They were built what could be considered "backwards" from what we have come to know, but they were out first so maybe we all play backwards guitars.
Gibson included humbucking pick-ups on pedal steels in 1956, a year before they came out on Les Paul goldtops.
TC |
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Howard Tate
From:
Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 Nov 2005 8:55 pm
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I have Bill Stafford's cd "Going Home", played solo on an Electra Harp. I don't know what model or year, but man, what a beautiful tone.
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Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum SD12U, Carter D10 8/8, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3, DD-3, Fender Steel King, Understanding wife. http://www.Charmedmusic.com
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 22 Nov 2005 9:27 pm
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It is late now, but I will post some of the history of the Gibson Electra-harps all the way from 1938, when I was 17 years old....al
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 22 Nov 2005 11:34 pm
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Now we get the REAL low down.
Looking forward to it Al.  |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 23 Nov 2005 4:59 am
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Bill Stafford's CD was recorded on a Sierra S14 SE.
I personally think the Electraharp is one of the most beautiful steels ever made. |
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Howard Tate
From:
Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Nov 2005 5:22 am
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Bill did a cd on the Sierra, but the Going Home cd was the Electra Harp, Bill told me that. Also it's on the cover of the cd.
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Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum SD12U, Carter D10 8/8, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3, DD-3, Fender Steel King, Understanding wife. http://www.Charmedmusic.com
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Ron Sodos
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2005 7:59 am
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| My first steel in 1977 was a Gibson Electraharp. It had a single neck 8 strings and 3 pedals that wer cable pulled. I bought it with a tax refund for $200 and sold it later on for the same money. Thats when I bought a double 10 ShoBud. I was always sorry I didn't keep the Gibson just for grins. O well Who knew? |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 23 Nov 2005 12:58 pm
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Here is my 1954 MultiHarp
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| Steel players do it without fretting |
 
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 23 Nov 2005 1:15 pm
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| Is this guitar a left handed model, or were they just built bass-ackwards? |
I have a little theory about this:
Since we are led to believe that Gibson and Harlin Bro's (Multi Kord) were first... I believe that way back then Gibson still had a good bunch or luthiers on payroll... then some steel guitars men and a mechanic came along... now, I wasn't even born back then, soo that's all just theories, but I do know that it can be though to convince a luthier to monkey arround with their bridge. The brige is where the sound comes home to. You can look at almost any stringed instrument (except most pedal steels today) and you will find out that outmost care was allways brought to form and shape of the bridge. So they put that changing device on the left and had to tune on the right. Would they have had known of a "keyless" tuning device back then, I'd bet you something that todays steel guitars would look way different, yes Nick, even your beloved Emmons. 
... J-D.
[This message was edited by J D Sauser on 23 November 2005 at 01:18 PM.] |
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T. C. Furlong
From:
Lake County, Illinois, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2005 8:26 pm
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Al, I have read that Gibson introduced a 6 pedal Electraharp in 1939 and continued making it until 1942 and that these pre-war models were actually mechanically superior to later versions. Apparently they changed the design due to a patent dispute. I have never talked to someone who knew for sure. I too would like to get the REAL low down. It is so cool that you were there.
basilh, the info I have says that Multiharps were made from 1957 to 1965. Yours sure is a cool looking one!
TC[This message was edited by T. C. Furlong on 23 November 2005 at 08:53 PM.] |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 24 Nov 2005 6:58 am
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I've also heard that Gibson copied Harlin's changer design, and that's why they had to change it. I've searched in vain for a copy of the original Harlin patent, but there's no doubt the Multi-Kord was produced for at least 2, or maybe 3 years before Gibson first pedal steel. Gibson produced very few pedal steels, Harlin made thousands.
Neither was a very good guitar by today's standards. |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 24 Nov 2005 12:26 pm
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I wasn't even in the making at that time, but from all I could read so far, Harlin came out with their instruments way after Gibson's pre WWII ElectraHarp (with 6 pedals).
It would seem that Harlin got a patent anyway on a identical changer which had unlimited raise and lower capabilities. Susequently Harlin Bros could force Gibson to stop making their original changer. Gibson then continued well into the 60's using a simplified version allowing only raise or lower on each string, which is what you see on the above pictures.
Both original changer mechanisms were quite revolutionary... all-and-multi pull but the action was though which was mechanical issue and had nothing to do with it's position.
So was the action of the next generation of pedal steels that could see some debate too, which was Bigsby and Wright Custom. I have seen catalog copies of WC's from the 40's, looking very similar to the Bigsby's of the 50's (or earlier?).
... J-D.[This message was edited by J D Sauser on 24 November 2005 at 12:27 PM.] |
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Kenny Forbess
From:
peckerwood point, w. tn.
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Posted 26 Nov 2005 4:30 pm
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Hey Nick,
I've got one of the S-6 EH 610's,4 pedals.
original case ,Humbucker, Great tone.
Got anything you might wanna trade,,,,like something in the 66 MODE, with the name beginning in "E" ?? Just kidding, but it's true, I own the Gibson,,,and the 66 "E" also.
Mail me , BTW,, Happy 13th Anniversary.
Kenny
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66 Emmons D-10 8&8
68 Emmons S-10 4&4
Derby D-10 8&9
Sho~Bud Pro-lll 8&8
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 26 Nov 2005 7:48 pm
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T.C-You are correct. Gibson put out their Electra-Harp with 8 strings and 6 pedals in 1939.
I didn't see J.D Sauser's post before I wrote this so am editing it to say that J.D was absolutly correct. Gibson's Prewar 1939 6 pedal 8 string electra-harp was the first pedal guitar I ever heard of. Multi-kord came out AFTER the War. And J>D was right again, there was a patent Dispute. Gibson's main business was their great 6 string guitars..
Unlimited tunings, great sound in that beautiful full birdseye maple cabinet enclosed on three sides to the floor.Tone and volume right handy to your little finger.
No tools or mecahanic knowledge needed to set it up or change pedal tunings. Just a small screw driver. Way ahead of its time.
Al Gershen has some photos of one. I wish I had kept mine, but I needed the money to get that MSA D12.
They foolishly did not get a patent on it. Alvino Rey had one and when he switched from his Gibson Conole grand to the Electra-Harp, I had a D8 console and then I simply HAD to have one too.
I knew what it could do chordwise. Alvino showed me the way.
I could not afford one in 1942, they were still selling or advertising them .
Well, I got drafted in 1942 ,10 days before my birthday Dec. 10, and didn't touch a steel until my discharge in Nov. 1945.
When I got out, I called Gibson's Pres. Terry McCarty in Kalamazoo , and he said they stopped making them during the war and all machine shops switched to war materials.
They did not resume building that model after the war. He didn't tell me why, but I suspect that multikord got a patent on it.
But he told me where one was for sale used, "George's Music Store" in Schenectady, New York.
I called them and was surprised at the price, they sold new for $450. in 1942. He wanted $550.!
I had just bought a nearly new Chevy for that amount. Lorraine and I scraped our money together and bought it COD. It was shipped in a big wooden crate with airplane rubberized cover over it. It was in perfect shape.
Tuning it was a breeze , and only took seconds for each pedal.I'll explain it in more depth at another time.
I would like to make mention that this was NOT the flimsy Electra-harp that folded up in a case with the tin spoons coming out the back leg hooked to wires.
I tried that one , one set and gave it back to Gibson. I couldn't keep it in tune. I stuck to my old prewar one.
Incidently, the one that Nick Reed has pictured was Gibson's try at getting in the market again.
It wasn't bad, better than the foldup ones by far. The pedals worked both necks all the time. NO crossover switch. Bad move.
And only 8 strings when Fender was coming out with 10 strings and a pretty good changer, and they could mass produce them without hardly any labor setup time. Gibson called me down to evaluate it and I told them all this.
At least the pedal were in front instead of the side, it had torque tube drive and the pedals were fairly easy to work compared to my old Pr-War Electra-Harp. They could mass produce it without hardly any labor time spent setting up like there is in todays guitars
It didn't sell very many, so they pulled it from the market and decided to not build any more pedal guitars and gave it all to Fender. As we all know Fender sold a lot of them.
Boy this is turning out to be a long story, almost getting like Jody's..goodnight.al
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 26 November 2005 at 08:07 PM.] |
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Al Gershen
From:
Grants Pass, OR, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 27 Nov 2005 12:51 pm
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Hi SGF:
I received an email from Al Marcus asking me to post some photos of the old Gibson Electraharps.
Here goes:
Here are two photos of the First Generation Gibson Electraharps that came out before World War 1 around 1939:
Here's a back view of my Gibson EH-820 Electraharp:
The above EH-820 Electraharp is a Third Generation Electraharp that came out in the early 1960s. There was also a single neck version available whose model number is EH-810.
I'm thing about selling my Electraharp. If you're interested, send me an email at:
aldg01@gmail
so we can discuss it. :-)
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Regards,
Al Gershen
Grants Pass, Oregon. USA
Fender 1000 (1957),
Fender PS 210 (1970) &
Gibson Electraharp EH-820 (1961)
Al's Photographs at http://www.alsphotographs.com
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 27 Nov 2005 1:35 pm
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Here's what I've been able to research so far...
The "Multi-Kord" (likely the first commercially-produced floor-pedal steel guitar) was probably designed around 1935 or 36 by Jay Harlin, and was selling in stores by 1937. This was 2 years before Gibson's pedal steel was introduced in 1939. A picture of Jay Harlin and his first pedal steel guitar can be seen in the book "The Hawaiian Steel Guitar and It's Great Hawaiian Musicians", by Lorene Ruymar.
The first "pedal steel", however, seems to have been the "Harmolin", which was designed in 1932. This was a 7-string acoustic lap-steel which had 2 knee operated levers and also a wrist operated lever.
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 27 Nov 2005 4:50 pm
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Donny-I didn't see any Multi-kord available for sale in 1937. If I did I would have bought it to get more chords.
The first pedal guitar I ever heard of was the Gibson Electra-Harp in 1939. I wanted it, but could not get the dollars for it.
The music store where I had taken some Oahu lessons from showed me the brochure of the Gibson.
I just had bought a Vega D8 console in 1938 and was trying to copy Alvino Reys's records on it, as he also had a
Gibson Grand console in around 1937.
He had a couple wires hanging down hooked to a couple of pedals. he was always experimenting. He was working with Gibson, and actually designed one of the first guitar pickups. He was a genius. Ask Jody Carver or Bill Stafford, because he worked with them later, on Fender and Sierra.
But when he got one of the first Electra-Harps, I went to see him in person 2 or 3 times and watched him all night right in front of the stage.
He wqas doing chords that I couldn't do on my Console, so I knew I would get one of those Electra-Harps just as soon as I could afford.
Well, WWII came along in late 1941 and I got drafted in 1942 so that ended that. Three years later the rest of the story in my other post.I finally got a used one after the War....ah memories...al
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Ernest Cawby
From:
Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Nick Reed
From:
Russellville, KY USA
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Posted 27 Nov 2005 6:03 pm
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Yes Ernie, by all means
NR |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 27 Nov 2005 6:15 pm
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Thanks Al Gershen for the pictures. That is exactly the PreWar Gibson Electra-Harp I had. Only the pictures do not bring out the beauty of it. It had Birdseye blond maple with column corners, and the inserts were Matched Walnut and very pretty and you could see the grain. All a little lighter color..
I had that guitar from 1946 to 1967, played it at thousands of jobs over the 20 years I had it.
I sold it to a Guitar teacher in Ohio in 1967 who wanted it displayed in his Guitar Studio.
That is when I got my first MSA D12 with 10 pedals and 7 knee levers. I met Reece Anderson in Napa,Calif. and was overwhelmed by his Musical Genius and just a great all around guy.
I still got a few solos on tape I did on it in 1950. All off the old reel to reel tapes.
Some I just plugged into the Board at the Radio Station. Those were happy times 55 years ago....al
(edited for spelling)
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 27 November 2005 at 06:30 PM.] |
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Al Gershen
From:
Grants Pass, OR, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 27 Nov 2005 7:21 pm
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Hi Donny Hinson:
Your comments about pedal and knee lever steel guitars BEFORE the 1939 1st Generation Gibson Electrharp are very interesting.
I'd sure like to see some detail photos of the 1st Generation Harlin Brother's Multi-Kord pedal steel guitars.
I did a Google search of the Harmolin and I found one circa 1940s that's available for sale for only $350 on the Musurgia website.
There's a nice article with some good detail photos at the URL:
http://www.musurgia.com/products.asp?ProductID=496&CartID=3974241222004
Is this guitar a good find?
Enjoy.
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Regards,
Al Gershen
Grants Pass, Oregon. USA
Fender 1000 (1957),
Fender PS 210 (1970) &
Gibson Electraharp EH-820 (1961)
Al's Photographs at http://www.alsphotographs.com
[This message was edited by Al Gershen on 27 November 2005 at 07:22 PM.] |
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Roger Edgington
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2005 4:04 pm
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| These pictures are great. The first pedal steel I sat down to was an 8 string 6 pedal Gibson that belonged to Marvin Mann in Cols, Ohio around 1958. I didn't know these other models even existed. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 29 Nov 2005 6:53 pm
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Here's some info from Brad Bechtel...
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| The Harlin brothers of Indianapolis, Indiana, had apparently developed the Multi-Kord by the mid 1930s, although they were not issued a patent on this instrument until 1947. Gibson patented their Electraharp in 1939. The design was a collaboration between Alvino Rey and John Moore. |
From what I can piece together, the Hawaiian Harmolin was designed in 1932 by Arthur M. Harmon. Harmon apparently sold the rights to Kenneth H. Clark, who then sold them to Jay Harlin. Harlin recognized that the "levers" could be moved to the floor, and operated with the feet. He also came up with the double-finger changer for raises and lowers. This is the changer that Gibson copied and put into their first pedal steel, only to have to stop production of, due to Harlin's claims that he had designed and produced it first.[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 30 November 2005 at 05:24 AM.] |
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Gary Spaeth
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2005 7:44 am
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| this thread is so cool it needs a bump!!! |
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