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Topic: Harsh string 'zing' remedy?? |
Keith Bolog
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 6 May 2016 12:27 pm |
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The QUESTION is...whats the best way to dress the changer finger tops without disassembling?
I have read the threads......
Some strings have a real harsh loud sort of 'zing' louder than the rest of the strings, and many point to the cause being a groove in the changer bridge. I am able to detect the slightest groove in a couple.
So what method has anyone used to smooth that out? tnx
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Sustainability is unsustainable |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 6 May 2016 1:10 pm
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I'll rub/smooth the top of the finger with Scotch Brite; then polish with mother's.
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com
Last edited by Ricky Davis on 6 May 2016 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 6 May 2016 1:24 pm
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Before you attack the fingers, have you tried moving the string over a bit on the finger to get it off the normal track? It might be something else, like roller nut issues?
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Keith Bolog
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 6 May 2016 3:37 pm remedy
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yup I moved the strings over and it improved a little, the upper roller is easy to reposition. I ws wondering if polishing compound would be just abrasive enough.
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Sustainability is unsustainable |
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Wayne Quinn
From:
Cape Breton.NovaScotia
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Posted 6 May 2016 5:21 pm where
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Hey Rickey where would I get Scotch Bright at. is it liquid
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D10 Carter, SD10 Mullen .Nashville 400,. peavey 112 Boss DD3., RV5, |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 6 May 2016 5:42 pm
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Wayne it's just a pad; like you clean pots and pans with>
It removes NO metal. But it really smooths an area and then polish with mother's mag & chrome polish or simi-chrome....whatever you successfully clean your metal with to mirror finish...>that works for me every time I change strings. If for some reason a string wants to "whine" before I change; I will try moving it a little but you run into scraping up the finger surface even more....So I loosen and pull off at finger; do a quicky; then hook string back on and tune up.....5 min. you're good to go.
If one does get a small groove going on the finger....DO NOT do any kind of re-surfacing to ONE FINGER....bad idea. Replace all fingers or re-surface all fingers to same diameter and height level...or you will be sorry you didn't..ha.
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 7 May 2016 6:25 am
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| When there is a groove and a bit of oil doesn't help, I've successfully used a small strip of 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper after carefully isolating the problem finger by stuffing cotton moistened with light machine oil to catch the grit produced all around it and wetting the sandpaper lapping the finger in question as if shining a shoe being careful not to apply pressure directly to the top of the finger in order to maintain the radius. I follow that up with a very light polishing with a Dremmel tool and a small buffing wheel. The zing you are trying to eliminate is a result of excessive contact between the finger and the string as it leaves the finger- that angle has to be great enough to allow the string to vibrate freely as it leaves the finger and the groove that has resulted from wear prevents that from happening. |
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 7 May 2016 10:22 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| It might be something else, like roller nut issues? |
That was my first thought. Easy to confirm or deny, 5 minutes tops. |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 8 May 2016 10:14 am
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An auto paint supply store will have several grades/grits of scotchbrite.
BF
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Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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Wayne Quinn
From:
Cape Breton.NovaScotia
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Posted 8 May 2016 2:11 pm thanks
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Thanks Rickey. for the info.good to know. 
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D10 Carter, SD10 Mullen .Nashville 400,. peavey 112 Boss DD3., RV5, |
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Wayne Quinn
From:
Cape Breton.NovaScotia
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Posted 8 May 2016 2:13 pm
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Thanks to you to Bill.and Jim for that info.
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D10 Carter, SD10 Mullen .Nashville 400,. peavey 112 Boss DD3., RV5, |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 8 May 2016 3:27 pm
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Found this...B
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Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 8 May 2016 4:10 pm
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The hand pads aren't the same as the scrubbing pads.
DO NOT use them where Ricky would use the green ones
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 8 May 2016 4:34 pm
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Yes like Lane pretty much said. And to further that; I have tried other makers of almost the exact looking pad and hand pad and bla bla....DO NOT USE OR TRY ANYTHING ELSE but the 3M pad I have pictured....or you won't like. I've been doing this crap for 20 years and already did/try/work with...everything above....so unless you are going to resurface/redo ALL FINGERS....what we need just every time we change strings and an occasional whining of the string vibrating on the finger top.....do just what I said in the post with the picture; or you eventually will be sorry...ha.
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 9 May 2016 3:56 am
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The reputation that Ricky has for rebuilding/refurbishing, I will not argue this point with him, he has much more experience with this, just trying to help with info about different grades of a product. You da man Rick....B
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Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 9 May 2016 4:21 am
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Indeed, Bill. The problem is that Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing slaps the ScotchBrite label on very different products. I actually like those things you posted the info on: I call them "sanding sponges."
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 9 May 2016 6:30 am
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Here's all you need..
http://www.matchlessmetal.com/index.php
Not really!
I usually go in line with the string across all the fingers using a superfine (1000 or finer) wet/dry paper, following the arc of the finger (don't want flat spots!) and working to finer grits before the polishing steps. Or start with a finer, or a more aggressive paper based on the test. Try one and go from there.
All this stuff is available at an auto body paint store, just tell them you want supplies to polish aluminum. They'll usually have 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, and 2000 grit, and Mother's.
You can also get into Micro Mesh which go from 1500 to 12000, so there's an overlap if using wet/dry and micro mesh. I buy Micro Mesh in separate sheets rather than the kit, cut them in small pieces, mark the grit on the back, and keep them stacked in order of grit in a small sandwich bag. one bag for metal, one bag for lacquer, you can rewash them and save them , or toss them after use. They are not cheap, but hold up well. Shop around.
The white scotch brite do a nice job of polishing, if they aren't, then more cutting has to be done with the previous steps.
As you work finer and finer in the polishing you might see scratches which you missed with previous steps - go back to that grit and start from that point on again
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--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 9 May 2016 6:58 am
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| Jim Palenscar wrote: |
| When there is a groove and a bit of oil doesn't help, I've successfully used a small strip of 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper after carefully isolating the problem finger by stuffing cotton moistened with light machine oil to catch the grit produced all around it and wetting the sandpaper lapping the finger in question as if shining a shoe being careful not to apply pressure directly to the top of the finger in order to maintain the radius. I follow that up with a very light polishing with a Dremmel tool and a small buffing wheel. The zing you are trying to eliminate is a result of excessive contact between the finger and the string as it leaves the finger- that angle has to be great enough to allow the string to vibrate freely as it leaves the finger and the groove that has resulted from wear prevents that from happening. |
I Like!!! Most people don't think about where the removed metal and abrasives are going - If you think like these nasty particles, you will see that they all go into the gaps between the changer fingers and quietly grind away at moving parts in the changer
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--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Keith Bolog
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 10 May 2016 7:27 am Good advice
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Thanks for all the ide-ars.
I think Ill try that scotch brite first since its the least 'dirty' method. I cant see it actually working well if it doesnt remove metal. I can feel the lil groove with my fingertip.
Stay tuned for results Im at it now.
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Sustainability is unsustainable |
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Keith Bolog
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 10 May 2016 8:05 am messy
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Note: scotch brite makes its own lil dusty bits. Luckily they are dry. Take precautions.
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Sustainability is unsustainable |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 10 May 2016 10:19 am Re: Good advice
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| Keith Bolog wrote: |
Thanks for all the ide-ars.
I think Ill try that scotch brite first since its the least 'dirty' method. I cant see it actually working well if it doesnt remove metal. I can feel the lil groove with my fingertip.
Stay tuned for results Im at it now. |
Contrary to what someone mentioned above, Scotchbrite pads ARE abrasive and DO remove material, but that's exactly what is needed to fix the problem - remove the material around the groove that is higher than the groove. Jim Palenscar's method with the oil soaked cotton to keep the grit out of the axle sounds like a really good idea. |
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Jonathan Shacklock
From:
London, UK
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Posted 10 May 2016 11:32 am
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Keith, please let us know if you are successful! To clarify, are we talking about a high pitched buzz, a sitar-like whine, or more of a clear harmonic overtone, very high pitched which can be as loud or even louder than the fundamental? Very annoying.
I have never managed to get rid of the latter on my MSA. Tried careful polishing, different brands and gauges of strings, even replaced fingers entirely to no avail. I will try Scotch Brite and Simichrome if you guys are convinced it does the trick. Good luck! |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 10 May 2016 12:16 pm
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| Jonathan Shacklock wrote: |
| ...I have never managed to get rid of the latter on my MSA... |
Jim Palenscar's post above describes the underlying issue:
| Jim Palenscar wrote: |
| ...The zing you are trying to eliminate is a result of excessive contact between the finger and the string as it leaves the finger- that angle has to be great enough to allow the string to vibrate freely as it leaves the finger... |
On the smaller strings with higher pitch and tighter oscillations (like string 3 on E9) that contact and resulting buzz/zing happens very close to the apex of the finger, so it can be really tough to tame completely sometimes. I think this was one of the paradoxes builders struggled with in the 60s, finding the optimum radius for the finger to reduce string fatigue and breakage while minimizing the potential buzz on the higher strings. I guess somewhere around +/- 3/8" radius is what the collective brain trust decided was optimal, as the fingers on most modern guitars are sized around there, but it ain't perfect. |
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Jonathan Cullifer
From:
Gallatin, TN
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Posted 10 May 2016 12:53 pm
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| 800 grit wet sandpaper usually does the trick on my Franklins, then polish with any sort of aluminum polish. I usually do them about twice a year, depending on how often I play them or if a string gets zingy before then. |
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Tommy Detamore
From:
Floresville, Texas
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