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Topic: What device strictly for sustain? |
Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 26 May 2018 6:06 am |
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I now I can artificially increase sustain via the volume pedal but I’m wondering if there is a good box I could experiment with ? (Boss, Keeley, etc)
Thanks for constructive feedback....
MB
_________________
RETIRED
Former steel guitarist for Tracy Byrd & The Byrd Dawgs, Mark Chesnut & The New South Band, Mark Nesler & Texas Tradition, Wayne Toups & ZydeCajun, Belton Richard & The Musical Aces
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 26 May 2018 6:38 am
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Keeley compressor is a good choice. A lot of people prefer the 4 knob version because you can tweak it a little bit more. The 2 knob version has the extra controls internally. I have something called the Punch Factory, made by Aphex. It's an optical compressor, a little more subtle than some of the others I've used. It has 1/4" and a low-impedance XLR output so you can use it as a direct box.
_________________
KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Danelectro, Evans, Fender, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 26 May 2018 8:46 am
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Thank you Kevin.
_________________
RETIRED
Former steel guitarist for Tracy Byrd & The Byrd Dawgs, Mark Chesnut & The New South Band, Mark Nesler & Texas Tradition, Wayne Toups & ZydeCajun, Belton Richard & The Musical Aces
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
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Fred Justice
From:
Mesa, Arizona
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Posted 26 May 2018 9:27 am Lots Of Sustain
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How about a new "Justice" guitar, that should give you all the sustain you'll ever need. 
_________________
Email: azpedalman@gmail.com
Phone: 480-235-8797 |
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Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 26 May 2018 9:37 am
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Good option Fred but I’m just tinkering—as usual.
_________________
RETIRED
Former steel guitarist for Tracy Byrd & The Byrd Dawgs, Mark Chesnut & The New South Band, Mark Nesler & Texas Tradition, Wayne Toups & ZydeCajun, Belton Richard & The Musical Aces
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 26 May 2018 11:05 am
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The #6 taper on Telonics volume pedal, (the one most people use,)adds compression as you depress the pedal. The degree of compression depends on the degree to which the pedal is depressed. It gives a very natural sounding sustain.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 26 May 2018 12:07 pm
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| The Boss LMB-3 has been my choice of [all-in-one] "buffer/sustainer/eq-stage" for steel for about a decade now, and will most likely stay in my sound-chains until either they or I no longer work |
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Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 26 May 2018 12:26 pm
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Thank you Guys!!
_________________
RETIRED
Former steel guitarist for Tracy Byrd & The Byrd Dawgs, Mark Chesnut & The New South Band, Mark Nesler & Texas Tradition, Wayne Toups & ZydeCajun, Belton Richard & The Musical Aces
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 26 May 2018 2:28 pm
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| Pedals with parallel compression have a more natural sound. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 26 May 2018 5:45 pm
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| I have a Tone press and a Sparkle drive but only use them for Telecaster. If you look up Parallel compressors there are other brands and people have done it with a mixing board. Blending a compressed chanel with a unaffected channel. |
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Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 26 May 2018 5:46 pm
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Thanks again folks. I’m taking it all in.
_________________
RETIRED
Former steel guitarist for Tracy Byrd & The Byrd Dawgs, Mark Chesnut & The New South Band, Mark Nesler & Texas Tradition, Wayne Toups & ZydeCajun, Belton Richard & The Musical Aces
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 26 May 2018 7:24 pm
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Marty, I've been dabbling with compressors for years. The new Keely Compressor Plus is on holiday sale right now at Reverb.com and everywhere just just $110. Worth considering.
I have a couple of Analogman boutique ones, an old MXR Dyna Comp, and a BOSS CS-2, but have never really dialed in a sound I'm happy with. That's me being lazy, not bad effects.
One that has intrigued me for years is the SlideRig from Origin Effects, pricey, but dual compressors chained together for near infinite sustain ala Lowell George of Little Feat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn72XPfzLBo
Their Cali76 also looks promising, Johnny Hiland does a good youtube demo, and look into Pete Thorn demos, too.
Let us know what you settle on and how you like it!
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E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Dave Beaty
From:
Mesa, Arizona, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2018 2:07 pm Serial vrs Parallel Compression
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Marty, I think it was Stephen Gerrard who did a nice job of explaining this with regard to it's use in recording - as follows:
"Serial compression is when the compressor is inserted in the signal chain and you use 100% of the processed/compressed signal.
Parallel compression is when you set up a separate bus for the compression and you blend in the compressed signal with the original uncompressed signal.
If you were doing this in a software DAW, serial compression would be with the compressor plug-in put into a channel insert. Parallel compression would be setting the compressor up on an FX bus or group channel (or whatever your DAW calls it) and using FX sends (or duplicate tracks routed to the group track with the compressor) to control how much of the signal you want sent to the compressor, along with the volume of the compressor channel, to control the blend of the compressed signal with the uncompressed signal.
Some compressors now have “mix” controls on them which basically allow you to do more simple parallel compression by putting the compressor on the insert and then using the “mix” control to determine the balance between compressed and uncompressed signal. Some DAW software, such as Reaper, also have “mix” controls on each plugin panel window, also allowing you to do parallel compression with just an insert.
As for when you would use each, in the majority of circumstances when you are using the compressor mostly to control the dynamics of a track, you would use it in a serial setup on a channel insert, so that you are only hearing the compressed signal in the mix.
Parallel compression is used more for an effect. Typically you would set up the compressor to do some extreme compression so you are hearing artifacts or distortion from the compressor, and you blend that in to taste with the original signal to add a touch of that “color” to the signal. However, you can also use parallel compression and compress fairly heavily, but without causing distortion, and just add some of that in with the original signal to kind of smooth it out a bit, but still retain some of the uncompressed signal as well."
Manual serial compression is used almost exclusively with the pedal steel guitar.
The Telonics FP-100 pedal system is the first and only pedal to provide a patented multiple taper system which actually provides gain specifically for this purpose (using tapers 6, 7 or  .
This allows the musician to define the compression curve in real-time/on-the-fly, to suit his or her personal taste in expressing their dynamics.
Such capability is currently not possible with any autonomous "pedals" or rack compression units.
The amount of sustain thus attainable is significantly extended as compared to any other treadle-operated foot pedal. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2018 6:58 pm
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| Quote: |
| Pedals with parallel compression have a more natural sound. |
"may have"
The "natural sound" depends entirely on the settings and how the unit is used - and not all with "parallel compression " ( a fancy term for dry signal blending") handle the dry signal very well.
Regardless of the unit, compressors of any type - the only devices that "add" sustain" - increase the level of any noise in the signal.
Differences between better units is more in how they handle tone shaping than sustain or noise control. The latter two are relatively equal among better-quality pedals. This is why it's important to "test drive" any you are considering with your own rig. It's the only way to get a true, accurate "audio picture" that's in the proper context.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2018 10:05 am
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All,
Thank you very much go your contributions to this discussion. I’ve gained allot of useful knowledge for the tinkering I’m doing.
_________________
RETIRED
Former steel guitarist for Tracy Byrd & The Byrd Dawgs, Mark Chesnut & The New South Band, Mark Nesler & Texas Tradition, Wayne Toups & ZydeCajun, Belton Richard & The Musical Aces
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
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David Sheads
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2018 9:07 am
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I'm posting so that I can easily follow any future discussion here.
Also to add that I recently acquired a "Pedal Plus" sustain pedal from Gamechanger Audio. It looks like a sustain pedal on a piano, and can act similarly to a "freeze" effect pedal, though it has some additional uses and ways that it can function.
At the moment, I use it to hold out a chord so that I can experiment with lines over top of each chord. It has it's own send/return, and I've put a chorus'ed reverb on the effect loop to give it a feel similar to a constant light vibrato.
Being a foot-activated pedal, it does make it a little difficult to use on pedal steel - it requires taking your foot off the volume pedal to hit the sustain, and again to end it (when in infinite sustain mode; it can also be set to fade out over time). i had to adjust my volume pedal tension a bit to prevent changing the level suddenly/accidentally while removing/re-placing my foot.
I think it has immediate useful applications: for setting up some background pad ambience/atmosphere, or for holding out a low pedal tone or ambiguous chords that will work over multiple other chords.
so it's not a way to get more sustain, but to artificially/electronically sustain whatever sound is going through a part of your signal chain at the time you press the pedal, potentially long after the string has stopped physically vibrating. kind of a looper pedal for a note/chord at a time.
I think it will be more fun on other instruments I play (classical guitar and bass, in particular), but I'm keeping it hooked up to my pedal steel in case inspiration strikes. |
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