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Topic: Pedal problem on MSA U12 |
Phil Sikes
From:
Greenbank, WA
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Posted 11 Nov 2005 10:03 am |
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HELP! I have been working on getting my U12 into top shape and learning a lot about tempered tuning. While trying to tune my pedals I found that my 4th pedal (actually in pedal 8 position) will not lower the 12th string at all. If I unscrew the tuner nut all the way it will actually go sharp almost to a C but not quite. No matter how far I turn the nut in it will not detune. I seem to have plenty of slack in the pedal assembly so what now?
Thanks - Phil
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MSA U12 Classic, Mullen D10
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 11 Nov 2005 10:52 am
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Phil,
That IS actually P8, in the 'normal' C6 tuning, if I read you right -- the 'boo-wah' pedal, right?
Sounds like it's binding somewhere in or near the changer. The pitch should NOT change at all when loosening any tuning nut. That's a tipoff right there. I would check to see if the last few threads are binding up in the lower finger. Look at it through the endplate 'window'. Can you verify that the pull rod is moving freely in and out through the changer?
Another thing to try is to pull on the lower finger with a pair of needle nose pliers to verify that it will go down. If the rod isn't sticking on the threads it's possible that a string end or something is stuck in the changer.
Those are the first two things I'd look for. I'm sure others will have other ideas.
Good luck
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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Phil Sikes
From:
Greenbank, WA
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Posted 11 Nov 2005 11:19 am
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Larry, thanks for the reply. I am leaving for work but I did go verify the the rod is moving in, not out as it should. This MSA was setup with the Franklin pedal in position 4 and pedal 8 is chnaging strings 12, 11 and 9. The rod is moving freely, just not the right way it seems to me. I will try and research this more as I have time, but any thoughts will be appreciated.
Thanks - Phil
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MSA U12 Classic, Mullen D10
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 11 Nov 2005 11:48 am
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Pluck the string and pull the lower finger out manually with needlenose. If it doesn't lower, you've isolated the problem to the changer. Look REAL CLOSE for a piece of string or ball end. They can hide pretty well on some guitars.
You might also try disconnecting the return spring and pulling the finger out manually to lower the string. If the spring is too tight it can cause problems lowering all the way. If it's too LOOSE, it might not return properly. I doubt that's the problem since it won't lower AT ALL.
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| Quote: |
| the the rod is moving in, not out as it should. |
On an all-pull guitar like an MSA, all changes -- be they raises or lowers -- pull on the changer the same direction. The nylon nuts move from right to left sitting at the guitar (in other words, IN, toward the changer).
Take a look at your other lowers (like E to D# on 8, for example) as a reference. All changes should cause the nylon nut to move toward the changer, not away from it.
Also, be sure it is in one of the lower holes in the changer (closer to the floor).
Whatever you try be sure to loosen the nylon tuning nut so that it's not exerting any force on the changer. If tightening the nylon nut was changing the open string something at that end of the pull train is not properly adjusted.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 11 November 2005 at 12:02 PM.] |
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Phil Sikes
From:
Greenbank, WA
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Posted 11 Nov 2005 7:04 pm
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Larry, I did try pulling the lower finger and the string will lower like that but not with the pedal. The rod is going through the upper of the lower holes. There does seem to be movement of the finger next to the one connected, is this normal? I appreciate your help once again.
Phil
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MSA U12 Classic, Mullen D10
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 12 Nov 2005 10:10 am
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Your diagnosis should start at the changer and proceed through the pull train. If you can pull the lower finger with the expected results, next pull it with the pull rod. Does it still lower?
No, the adjacent string should not move if you manually pull the lower finger on 12. Does the pitch of the 11th string actually change?
That sounds like something wedged between the changer fingers of the last 2 strings -- like a string end. I know I keep mentioning that, but it is one of the things that comes to mind as a possible cause for the symptoms you describe. The lower fingers of the 11th and 12th strings should move completely independently.
Continuing with the logic above, if the pitch is lowered by pulling on a pull rod through the lower holes on the changer finger, it must be something between the changer and the pedal linkage itself.
The next part in the pull train is the brass swivel on the bellcrank. Is it tight?
Next is the bellcrank itself. If your guitar has round cross shafts, sometimes they can become loose and really need to be snugged down tight.
Next is the pedal linkage itself which should be ok if the other two pulls on that pedal are working fine.
If you can lower the string by pulling on the pull rod, but not by pressing the pedal -- if you're sure there is plenty of throw to effect the lower -- and the return spring isn't getting in the way -- I'm not sure what's going on there.
You might try disconnecting all pulls to that string and testing all the above. If everything appears ok, remove the pull rod that RAISES the 12th string on your 5th pedal (or wherever you have that change) and run it through the lower hole in the changer. What happens then?
I hope you find it soon. I'm running out of ideas. 
Keep at it. You'll figure it out. If you haven't already, consult the Carter PSG maintenance site http://www.steelguitarinfo.com
There's lots of great info there.
Or . . . give Bud Carter a call. He probably built it.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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