1st string raise on C6th?

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Can someone give me a good reason why you would waste the time to put a first string raise (D to D#, 5th pedal) on the C6th when the same could be easily accomplished by bar movement. I think I'm missing something.

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 03 November 2005 at 03:48 PM.]

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Well, for starters, it completes a full diminished chord with pedals 5 & 6, starting from the 9th string going up, all one-and-a-half-steps, thusly:

Gb-A-C-Eb-Gb-A-C-(skip string 2)-Eb

Personally, I don't use it, but I think most folks do, and I've thought about putting it on.

I'm not clear about your point about using your bar instead: you can't really use you bar to go up one fret on one string, if you need the rest of your bar to be back a fret for the remainder of the chord, but perhaps I'm just missing your point? (My wife says I do that a lot...)

[This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 03 November 2005 at 04:26 PM.]

John Steele (deceased) · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

I thought most people had the D-D# raise on their 8th pedal....

-John

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

I did miss something. My mistake. Its meant for the G raise on the first if you use a G.

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

The change G-G# is not a waste of time. It's an augmented chord, used as a passing tone to a 4 chord. Also a high root tone when using pedals 5 and 6 to create a V13th chord one fret back from home base.



ex. 1 C-E-G# augmented





1____G#____#5


2____E_____3


3____C_____1








ex. 2 G13th to C resolution





1_____11# (G root)___12 (G)


2_____11# (E 13th)___12 (E)


3_____11  (B 3rd)____12 (C)


4_____


5_____11b (F b7th)___12 (G)


6_____11b (D 5th)____12 (E)


7_____11  (B 3rd)____12 (C)

Personally, I have a D on top and don't change it with p.5 because I want the 9th chord with the root on top.

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Texas Steel Guitar Association

Ken Williams · From: Arkansas

Several years ago,when I changed the first string from a G to D I kept the 1/2 tone pull on the first string. Now, I wouldn't want to play without it. I just kept it on the 5th pedal and it works fine for me. Many players have it on another pedal or lever. I had thought of moving it, but I use it so much in conjunction with the 5th and 6th pedals, it would just be another lever that has to be pressed. Call me lazy I guess. However, I can see some advantages of having it on a seperate lever. As someone else mentioned, it works well when playing a diminished chord, not only in the chord voicing but also single string soloing. It also produces a 1/2 tone interval between the 1st and 2nd string, which is helpful at times. There are several other places that this change fits well. Here's another quick example. Let's say you're playing a G7b9 chord at the 5th fret with pedals 5,6 and lever that lowers the 3rd string 1/2 tone. If I'm thinking of this correctly, the flatted ninth note would be on the 6th string. If the 1st string is raised 1/2 tone it would produce the same note, only an octave higher. This helps somewhat in single string soloing plus, to me, when included in the chord, gives a more "outside" sounding effect. Of course that may just be the way my tired old ears are hearing it.

Ken
http://home.ipa.net/~kenwill

[This message was edited by Ken Williams on 03 November 2005 at 07:39 PM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I lower the high G to F# instead of raising it. It just made sense to me because I normally use that pedal to get a D9th, and the high F# is right in step with that usage.

I'm sure that the jazz players will scream that I'm dumbing down the tuning, but since most people don't even have a high G nowadays, I figure it's no big deal what changes I put on it.

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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

C-B +E + G-G# = E major triad; another position for a major chord is hardly trivial? 12th fret open C, 13th fret F, 15th fret G, 17th fret (P7)* C, etc.

*(or C-B, E-D)

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

b0b
The G-F# lower was common in the 60's. You can hear it prominantly on several Hank Thompson recordings.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

... in other words, b0b lee, "you're late!"

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Actually, with a 12 string C6th, I'm not.

If you use the high G# for an E chord (with the C to B lower), it has to been tuned pretty flat, right? I mean, assuming that the C is centered on the meter, the E will be tuned flat and the G#, as the 3rd of E, will have to be tuned doubly flat.

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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

(?) If you tune all your notes and levers and pedals accurately, a la Eric West, Buddy Emmons etc., it tunes up just fine. You tune the E to E, the B to B, and the G# to G#. The way I play in C6th at least, any of the strings from 10 to 1 can at some point be the tonic of a chord, so "tuning the 3rds" is an irrelevant idea.

[This message was edited by David Mason on 05 November 2005 at 06:35 AM.]

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