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Topic: Minor Chords |
Roger Childress
From:
South Carolina, USA
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Posted 4 May 2018 4:05 pm |
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| Ok, here’s my conundrum, finding my minor chords. I have found one way to get them, but I’m looking for another way. The way I have found is to play the major chord with A and B pedals down. Then I engage my LKL which lowers my B strings 1/2 step. Right now that’s the only way I’ve found a minor. Any suggestions. The A pedal also raises my B strings. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Mark S. Miller
From:
Depew, NY, USA
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Posted 4 May 2018 4:30 pm
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| 3rd fret A & B pedals down C chord Release B pedal E minor Stay there B & C Pedals down A minor. There are more I will let someone else jump in. |
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Jordan Beyer
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 4 May 2018 4:39 pm
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| When you are learning the position of minor chords, try to learn them relative to what key you are in. this will help you discover the pattern that the minors are found in. for example, we are in the key of G. a common minor position is strings 3,4,5,6,8,10(any combination with including the 5th or 10th string) and depressing the A pedal. on the third fret, we find a G major, pressing the A pedal with turn you G major into an E minor(or the 6th minor, relative minor) that is a pattern. on the tenth with AB pedals depressed, we get a G major. go down 2 frets and depress the a pedal. this will give you an A minor, or the 2nd minor, the 10th fret with the A pedal will give you a B minor, or the 3rd minor, all in relativity to that key. all these positions are in a pattern. the A pedal minor seems to be my go to, but you can find a lot more using the E lever(lowers 4 and 8 half step, the 7th string, and your BC pedals, each give a different approach and flavor. In G, on the third fret, instead of going the 8th fret and depressing the A pedal for the 2nd minor, we can engage the BC pedals on the third fret and give use the same minor as we got on 8 w/ A pedal. this gives us that minor in a different position and gives us a different approach in getting that chord. I could write 50 more lines explaining all the positions but the best way would be for you to find a chord chart and see where the minors in a specific key line up. and discover the pattern that is being presented. that's the way I learned. hope this helps. JB |
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Roger Childress
From:
South Carolina, USA
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Posted 4 May 2018 4:49 pm
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| Thanks for the suggestions. I’ll probably sit down at it tonight after the wife goes to bed. (I have to use my headphones) lol |
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Jordan Beyer
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 4 May 2018 7:06 pm
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Let me know if you have any questions.
JB |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 5 May 2018 4:51 am
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If you can find the major triad, example G major triad. It should contain these 3 notes....
G = Root, B = 3rd, D = 5th
There are 3 ways it will transform into a minor type.
Lower the Root note a half step
Gives F# B D (Bm) which is the IIIm in relation to the G triad.
or
Raise the 5th a whole step
Gives G B E (Em)which is the VIm in relation to the G triad
or
lower the 3rd a half step
Gives G Bb D which is the minor version of the original major triad, in this case G B D.
When you did the A+B pedals w LKL you lowered the 3rd of your original major triad a halfstep.
Some positions lets you do these changes with no problems at all.
The G triad at 3rd fret, strings 8 6 and 5 can easily be transformed to either Bm(lower Root note) or Em(raise 5th a whole step)
If you compare the notes of your A+B+LKL on strings 10 8 6 5 4 3 you will probably find that they match the notes of the knee lever that lowers your E's(strings 8 and 4) a half step altho you need be 1 fret higher for the notes to match.
B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12 extE9 7+7 |
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Roger Childress
From:
South Carolina, USA
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Posted 5 May 2018 5:43 am
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| I want to thank all of y’all who have answered my question! Y’all have truly been extremely helpful. When I played the PSG over 30 years ago, I didn’t have a bit of music theory knowledge. But, after playing guitar and bass over those intervening years, I acquired music theory through self study. I understand how a chord is built, but it just seemed a little daunting facing 10 strings versus 6. What y’all have told me on here has been a world of help and made me understand this thing even more. The steel guitar world is truly a fraternity! I do a little songwriting and look forward to adding the steel to my recordings. Thanks again for everything! |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 5 May 2018 7:56 am
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| There are basically two ways to get minor chords on the pedal steel: lower the E to Eb with a knee lever or raise the B to C# with the A pedal. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 5 May 2018 9:06 am
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| Two ways? What about BC-pedal combo? |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 May 2018 9:10 am
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This is turning into one of those threads where you wonder if anyone is actually reading the comments before posting their own.  |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Dave Dube
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 5 May 2018 1:43 pm
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The three types of minor chord that Bengt describes are simliar to the majors - pedals up, pedals down and A/F - in the sense that you can play three inversions per octave with the same grip.
The next step is to learn where the nearest IV and V chords are to each one, and this is what I'm working on at the moment. A few nights back I had to play with a guitarist who sang a song in a minor key, just three chords, but I realised I was having to move too far to find them, so I need to smarten up. Also V is generally major but IV is generally minor.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Pete Bailey
From:
Seattle, WA
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Posted 5 May 2018 7:43 pm
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A very helpful comment was made by David Doggett about playing in minor keys a while back.
I can't find the exact quote but I will do my best to reproduce his advice from memory here.
| Quote: |
When playing a song in a minor key, 1m 4m & 5 (major) can easily be found right next to each other from two positions:
1) A pedal (1m), E lower -2 frets (4m), AB pedals -1 fret (5), or;
2) E lower (1m), A pedal (4m), Open -1 fret (5) |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 May 2018 9:25 pm
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| Pete Bailey wrote: |
A very helpful comment was made by David Doggett about playing in minor keys a while back.
I can't find the exact quote but I will do my best to reproduce his advice from memory here.
| Quote: |
When playing a song in a minor key, 1m 4m & 5 (major) can easily be found right next to each other from two positions:
1) A pedal (1m), E lower -2 frets (4m), AB pedals -1 fret (5), or;
2) E lower (1m), A pedal (4m), Open -1 fret (5) |
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One more:
AB or BC (1m [root on 7]), Open (4m [root on 10 & 5]), A+E raise (5).
Harmonic minor scale is all right there too, especially if you have D# to D lower on 2.
Another cool bit of minor chord trivia is the way the voicings are spaced up and down the fretboard. Em can be voiced at frets 3, 8, and 10 - same spacing as a no-pedals 1-4-5 progression in the key of G. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 6 May 2018 6:34 am
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Think in terms of relative-major/minor.
Em is the relative minor in the key of G. Simply raising the 5th string (and the 10th) at the third fret provides the Em.
Move the G major up three frets and use your A pedal - that's G minor.
Same with pedals down - At the third fret that's a C major. Move it up three frets and that becomes Eb major. Eb's relative minor is C minor:
Play C major with pedals down at the third fret on strings 4,5,6. Now move up three frets and use strings 5,6,7 and there's a pure C minor.
This is applying theory at, admittedly, a very basic level but better and more intuitive than trying to manipulate a major chord into a minor at the same fret.
The same principle applies to any major shape. Move up three frets and you'll find the minor. Stay where you are and you'll find the relative minor.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 6 May 2018 9:13 am
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| Roger Rettig wrote: |
Play C major with pedals down at the third fret on strings 4,5,6. Now move up three frets and use strings 5,6,7 and there's a pure C minor.
This is applying theory at, admittedly, a very basic level but better and more intuitive than trying to manipulate a major chord into a minor at the same fret. |
There is some usefulness in that basic logic, Roger. But how is it more intuitive or better than finding the Im, IVm, and V7 all at the same fret? That is pure magic, and seems like the ultimate convenience to me. It also tells you that every note in the minor scale is right there, just like with the home frets for major key positions. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 6 May 2018 9:37 am
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Fred:
I meant that understanding how the logic of music theory works has more far-reaching benefits than simply applying 'pedal steel logic' (how to find everything in one position).
I don't disagree with you (when I first started my ambition was to find everything without moving the bar) but my method is a foolproof formula that will help the player understand the mathematics of music.
I've also learned that changing positions as I've described can help with PSG's inherent tuning issues. The more pulls one engages (the problems of the E to F lever and the pitch disparities that can result are a good example) the more compromises we have to deal with.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 6 May 2018 10:09 am
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Roger, pedal steel logic + music theory + slip-slidin’ around on 10 strings = Mr. Me Very Happy.  |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 6 May 2018 11:59 pm
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This old post shows a basic quick reference chart where minors and majors are found on strings 10 8 6 5 4 3
https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum8/HTML/000738.html
Some positions might have all the chords you need very close by each other. Other positions will not.
B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12 extE9 7+7 |
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