C6 copedant C->C#, requesting feedback

John Poston · From: Albuquerque, NM, USA

I've been back into C6 and gigging old swing standards for a few months. Only have 1 D10 and considering a backup - but of course this brings up new copedant ideas, esp since changes on my P/P are such a hassle Smile

Here's what I really DON'T want to change since it's so ingrained. Standard pedals 5-8 (high D to D# on P8 ).
LKL lower A to Ab, RKL raise A to Bb, RKR lower C to B. I know it makes better sense to have A changes on one knee and add C# raise opposite C lower but I really don't think I can retrain my brain.

I currently have reverse 6 on P4. I do miss the standard P4 a bit and have not really been using it for the more old fashioned tunes.

So considering putting A to B back on P4 - but INSTEAD - I'm wondering about putting both C->C# on pedal four. I always two-foot, so I'd be able to combine with P5 and P8 easily. I'm also considering getting a P9 and adding a half-Boowah that lowers 10,9 to better comp min7 in low end (idea from Emmons via Herb Steiner) - P4 C# raise would obv work in combo with that too.

So, long story long. Looking for people who use the C# raise on foot and on knee, hear about how you're using it, and what I am gaining/losing putting it on a foot pedal versus making it LKR, where I can't combine with A->Ab lower.

Thanks as always for the collective wisdom...

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

My thoughts with the C# change on a knee lever:

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Tab/Tab13.html

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

When I had a D10 the boowah was on P4 and I had C to C# on P8, which was quite workable. But C to C# on P4 would work great with P5 for the A6 chord.
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Bill Cunningham · From: Atlanta, Ga. USA

I have C>C# on P9 but have yet to spend the time to master it. I have P8 on LKL and the Jernigan P4 on P8. I was not willing to give up the the standard Maj7 on P4.

I am thinking of not using the volume pedal and focusing on using two feet on the back neck. At the Arizona show Steve Cat (apologies, I can't spell the last name at the moment) played a beautiful flawless 30 minute set of The Great American Songbook using two feet and never touched his volume pedal!!!
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Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

C-C# is indispensable for me on C6. I use it with pedal 5 to get the three frets up position and for a host of other purposes. Because it I use it so much with pedal 5, I took a radical step and moved it to the adjacent pedal to the left. The radical part is that I moved pedal 6 to a knee lever (RKL), which works fabulously for me, but is probably not for everyone (and makes it impossible for me to play a standard C6 set up). Not sure where to suggest putting it, but I would make it sure it is easy to use with pedal 5.

John Swain · From: Winchester, Va

I feel Buck Reid's C6 setup satisfies my needs,with the addition of both As-Bb and lowering the 6th string to D. IMHO both Cs-C# are most useful on RKR or LKL and preferably opposite A-Bb to use with p5+6 to give IV or IIm chord one fret below open chord.

Craig A Davidson · From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

I have the C changes on the right knee and the A changes on the left. I have a vertical with reverse pedal 6. D note on the first string that raises a half. The pedals are all stock C6.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Dan, I also have P6 on a lever. I play a uni and RKR lowers Es to D#; then if I push on it takes string 8 down to D and 4 back up to E. That means I can have P5 & P7 as my home position on B6; also the E - D lower on string 8 is nice to have in E9. No good if you don't like half-stops!
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John Poston · From: Albuquerque, NM, USA

John Poston · From: Albuquerque, NM, USA

Drew Howard · From: 48854

C > C# on RKR per Emmons.

Bob Watson · From: Champaign, Illinois, U.S.

Could you have a D10 with 8/5 and have the LKV work on both necks? In other words,lower 5 and 10 1/2 step on the E9 and raise 3 and 7 1/2 step on the C6 neck?

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

Here's a short sequence I recorded on C6 using the pedal 5 + C# knee lever. In many cases having the C to C# knee lever is more useful than having the original high G string on the tuning. As shown on the audio clip below you can play a whole melody chord sequence without leaving strings 2,3 and 5 (the 1st 8 triads you hear in the clip below).

This clip starts out in F on strings 2,3,5 at fret 5 with no pedals. It then progresses up the neck by engaging the P5 + C# change on and off then,

P6
P6 + A to Bb change , P6
no pedals
A to Ab change
no pedals
P5
String 6 E to F change
P5,6
End with strum in F with just the E to F change activated for a nice major ninth sound.

Hear It!

This was actually played on my 12 string Excel with the level flipped over to C6. Just look at my C6 tuning chart below and ignore the top 2 strings. Strings referenced above refer to the traditional C6 10 string tuning. I had all these changes on my D-10 and they are very intuitive to use.

Steve Cattermole · From: California, USA

I love the c-c#. I use like Greg and Dan explain,also with pedal 6 for a aug chord.Say fret 12 with ped 6,then bring in the C-C# then up a fret with ped 5 and C-C#.thats a F7 to Faug to Bb6.I also use it for 2-5-1 change,in the key of C I play using your 6 string as root fret 10 with ped 7 come off the pedal and raise C-C# then come off lever and slide up 2 frets to resolve it.That,s Dm-G7-C6.If you,re a two footer try the ped 5+C-C# lever and add ped 7 theres a bunch of chords there.I have my C-C# on lkl the same lever that raises my E-F on E9.I raise strings 4+8 to Bb with a 1/2 stop then to B,with my rkl, it freed up my ped 4 for other things. Thanks Bill for the nice words here and at the show

John Poston · From: Albuquerque, NM, USA

Steve Cattermole · From: California, USA

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

Before I had the A to Bb knee lever, I used to adjust the pulls on the A to B pedal so that the high A string would go exactly one half tone before engaging the lower A string raise. It makes a decent half stop with no extra hardware needed. Making the lower A to B pull on the pedal a bit harder pull provides for a more positive half stop.

Dan Kimpel · From: Pewaukee, Wisconsin, USA

Greg, that excel is a beautiful instrument. If you ever consider selling it I want one exactly like that. Much more convenient than my D-12!

Jim Hoke · From: Tennessee, USA

I like that change on LKV. That way it's compatible w/ all the floor pedals and also my LKL and LKR.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I have it on LKL because it functions like the F lever on E9th. It's the same reflex action. I use it a lot with P5, so putting it on P4 would be my 2nd choice if LKL wasn't available.
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Jeff Harbour · From: Western Ohio, USA

Do it! I have the C-C# raise on Pedal 4 and love it! When you go up three frets with Pedals 4 & 5 down, you get the entire first inversion of the open tuning on strings 2-10. This gives you the 'G on top' harmony that was lost if you're a 'D on top' player. I find that easier to do with pedals rather than pedal + lever.

Jim Hoke · From: Tennessee, USA

I see the beauty of having it next to P5 but then you can't get the combo w/ P6 which is a nice flat5 dom. 7 chord, which I got into a lot when I had a guitar with a difficult A-to-Bb pull (my preferred flat 5 dom. 7 chord with the 5 lower). But we can't have everything....

Jim Hoke · From: Tennessee, USA

....hpw about this - Stick the C to C# raise between P4 and 5 and have both combos. Bit you'd have to move P5 over to the left and lose whatever's on P4 now, and how much are you really gonna use that flat 5 chord? Just thinking.......

Jim Hoke · From: Tennessee, USA

...and that's what I get for trying to think before I have my coffee - you don't want to bust up the 5 and 6 combo obviously. Plus, if you were gonna have C to C# on P4 in the first place, you don't lose anything. Okay, where's a clean cup....

Jeff Harbour · From: Western Ohio, USA

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that my Pedal 6 is on a lever... So I am still able to get all of those altered dominants that are available with all three combined.

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