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Topic: Strings for my style |
Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2018 1:01 pm |
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I suspect this topic has been hammered to death, but this may be a different look at it.
I don't play the standard traditional country music on my pedal steel, and the sparkling bell-clear tone which is widely desired is not really my preference. I play rock-and-roll and blues, and I like a little smokier or nastier tone. Less bright, perhaps. Coarser. I don't know how to describe it any better.
I don't own any spare strings yet and am about to make a purchase. Can anyone give me any guidance on what strings might lean toward my preferred sound?
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 10 Mar 2018 5:13 pm
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| Use standard strings in the same gauges that are now on your guitar. Your amp and the effects you might use will matter more. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 10 Mar 2018 5:14 pm
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My view on the topic...
Well, IMHO...you're sorta outta luck looking at strings. You see, strings just aren't made to be "dark", "dull", or "smoky". They're made to be clear, clean, and bright. The sound I think you're looking for would more likely be found in the amp (read: amp settings), or maybe in a particular speaker or EFX box. If you're using a pot pedal, you might also find that reversing the cords at the pedal will give a damper, duller sound, and a little overdrive might round out the effect. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2018 5:48 pm
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| Quote: |
| You see, strings just aren't made to be "dark", "dull", or "smoky". They're made to be clear, clean, and bright. |
Not really true. Different alloys, core types and windings (round, compressed/roller and flat) make quite a difference in tone and sustain.
Yes, amp settings, speaker and the condition/adjustment of the amp itself may make more significant "tone adjustments" - but just installing different types - even gages - of strings will change the sound.
The best thing would be to use Google and research the subject,, as it's FAR too involved to be able to make precise recommendations. Major string manufacturers have tone charts on their sites; many, many websites and guitar mags have done in-depoth analysis of the subject, string comparisons etc.
Jeffrey, like you I don't play "normal" steel and for me stainless steel roundwound strings are horrible - IMO tiny, overly bright with a painful type of "bite". These things are NOT changed by amp tone controls - they are an inherent part of the string's response.
Briefly - "nickel plated steel" will be less bright; "pure nickel wound" another step "darker". Rollerwound and some types of flatwounds take things another step off the "bright" scale" - but there are other variables in string construction that enter into it. There are just the most-significant generalities.
The one thing that's harder to change is brightness of the plain strings, as most plain steel wire is just that - and descriptions like "nickel", stainless" etc only apply to the wound strings.
But SOME coated plain strings take a bit of the edge off in some cases. Unfortunately, it's difficult (if not impossible) to find singles in coated strings - I've been asking manufacturers to make them available for several years (I buy most of my strings in bulk)
Pickups are the other "offender" when it comes to overly bright pedal steel sounds. Most pedal steel pickups are specifically voiced for string treble. I suggest either sending your pickup out for a rewind (or have a new one made) by Jerry Sentell at Sentell Pickups.
Jerry has rewound pedal steel pickups with "mellower" voicing and done several custom rewinds of 6-string pickups for the same reason - plus taking modern , high-output pickups and "taming" the output at the same time. This can really smooth out the response and tame nasty treble, especially with humbucker types.
And if the steel has space the addition of a "neck pickup" like on a 6-string is another great approach.
The specific amp and speaker(s) also make a huge difference - and if a tube amp the condition (date since last service, especially if a vintage amp), bias setting, tube types (lower gain preamp tubes - and specific ones) also are important). And using a high-powered amp at a low volume setting usually compounds the "treble problem".
With any amp the speaker is a huge factor.
You're on the right track with strings but there are many, many other factors to look at. I've been at this from the player and tech side for decades, so feel free to email me - it's a subject few steelers seem to really get into and specifics of your setup probably won't apply to many...if any...others.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2018 6:17 pm
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| Jim Sliff wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You see, strings just aren't made to be "dark", "dull", or "smoky". They're made to be clear, clean, and bright. |
Not really true. Different alloys, core types and windings (round, compressed/roller and flat) make quite a difference in tone and sustain.
Yes, amp settings, speaker and the condition/adjustment of the amp itself may make more significant "tone adjustments" - but just installing different types - even gages - of strings will change the sound.
The best thing would be to use Google and research the subject,, as it's FAR too involved to be able to make precise recommendations. Major string manufacturers have tone charts on their sites; many, many websites and guitar mags have done in-depoth analysis of the subject, string comparisons etc.
Jeffrey, like you I don't play "normal" steel and for me stainless steel roundwound strings are horrible - IMO tiny, overly bright with a painful type of "bite". These things are NOT changed by amp tone controls - they are an inherent part of the string's response.
Briefly - "nickel plated steel" will be less bright; "pure nickel wound" another step "darker". Rollerwound and some types of flatwounds take things another step off the "bright" scale" - but there are other variables in string construction that enter into it. There are just the most-significant generalities.
The one thing that's harder to change is brightness of the plain strings, as most plain steel wire is just that - and descriptions like "nickel", stainless" etc only apply to the wound strings.
But SOME coated plain strings take a bit of the edge off in some cases. Unfortunately, it's difficult (if not impossible) to find singles in coated strings - I've been asking manufacturers to make them available for several years (I buy most of my strings in bulk)
Pickups are the other "offender" when it comes to overly bright pedal steel sounds. Most pedal steel pickups are specifically voiced for string treble. I suggest either sending your pickup out for a rewind (or have a new one made) by Jerry Sentell at Sentell Pickups.
Jerry has rewound pedal steel pickups with "mellower" voicing and done several custom rewinds of 6-string pickups for the same reason - plus taking modern , high-output pickups and "taming" the output at the same time. This can really smooth out the response and tame nasty treble, especially with humbucker types.
And if the steel has space the addition of a "neck pickup" like on a 6-string is another great approach.
The specific amp and speaker(s) also make a huge difference - and if a tube amp the condition (date since last service, especially if a vintage amp), bias setting, tube types (lower gain preamp tubes - and specific ones) also are important). And using a high-powered amp at a low volume setting usually compounds the "treble problem".
With any amp the speaker is a huge factor.
You're on the right track with strings but there are many, many other factors to look at. I've been at this from the player and tech side for decades, so feel free to email me - it's a subject few steelers seem to really get into and specifics of your setup probably won't apply to many...if any...others. |
Thanks a lot, Jim.
I use a Quilter Mach Two and I do use its voices to get closer to the sound that I want. For a variety of reasons I choose to not use any other effects, particularly because my brain damage causes certain cognitive limitations, especially a requirement for a narrow focus because otherwise I lose my place, and I can't operate external effects at all well. I was worried about operating the pedals and knee levers but I think that is going to work out. My situation is difficult to describe but does show up an an EEG. That said, there is a strong tendency for people to think that because I just started with pedal steel I also just fell off the turnip truck yesterday, but the two conditions are not necessarily connected.
I am aware of the pickup issue. I have wound a few myself - I made a pickup winder out of an old treadle operated sewing machine.  There is for sure no realistic way to add pickups to my beautiful Carter, but if / when I build my own PSG it will for sure have two pickups, because getting a pickup farther away from the bridge is probably the single easiest way to get more harmonics into the tone. It hadn't occurred to me that I could have these rewound, but I don't think I will, because placement is such a major factor.
I will look further into your suggestions. You gave me the sort of answer I was hoping for, and again, thank you.
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
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Posted 10 Mar 2018 9:04 pm
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You might consider going to heavier gauge strings tuned down. D9 rather than E9, or Bb6 or A6 rather than C6.
Also, modern PSGs never have a tone control, and most not even a volume control. A passive tone control between the guitar and volume pedal has a very different effect from the active controls on an amp. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 11 Mar 2018 6:55 am
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| Tucker Jackson wrote: |
These guys are steering you right.
Having said that, PSG string sets usually come in nickel or stainless steel. If you want darker, you want nickel. Note that the effect is nuanced... and this choice only affects the wound strings; all plain strings in a set are stainless. |
Nope. The plain strings in all sets, as well as the cores of the wound strings, are music-wire steel - not stainless steel.
| Quote: |
You don't have a lot of wiggle room on gauges, but you're going to want to go to the heavier gauge when there's a choice.
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I'll agree there. Pedal steels don't do well going from "slinky" to "heavy". On some steels, even small changes in gauges can require linkage changes or adjustments. Stainless sets do give more "twang" on the wound strings, and the twang lasts longer. But I find that the roughness, bar drag, and string noise of stainless sets makes them less desirable. YMMV
The point that Jim makes about different types (coated, ground wound, or flat wound) has some validity. The problem is that you're limited in sets and gauges available, and that takes us back to square #1 as far as having to reconfigure the works repeatedly. If you're new at pedal steel, you want to spend most of your time learning to play, not continually trying to keep the damn thing in tune.
Pickups? Well, IMHO that can be hit or miss. Once again, the limited number of "stock" pickups available that will fit your guitar is a crapshoot, as are the acceptable results you might get from trying different types. I've found that there's the somewhat-compressed "humbucker sound", and then there's the cleaner "airy" sound of single coils. The smaller changes made by variations of each are usually really subtle. In my own mind, they're not significant enough to worry about. But then again, I'm not a tone maven. My own thoughts are always more about playing ability and taste than they are about just the "tone". But counter to what Jim says, I think steel pickups used to be wound for treble. Nowadays, I'm not hearing anything like the clarity, sharpness, and "bite" that we heard 50-60 years ago. (Probably because nobody plays with those tones anymore.) "Round and smooth" are more the order of the day, now. That's all I'm hearing, anyway. 
p.s. Jeffrey - do you have anything posted on YouTube? |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2018 8:14 am
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This may seem a little elementary and not very high tech, but laying off the top three strings might get you part of the way to where you want to go, tone-wise.
The Qulitaire Looks like a fine beast with a lot of tonal possibility. What you are looking for is in there somewhere. |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2018 11:52 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
p.s. Jeffrey - do you have anything posted on YouTube? |
Tons of stuff, on lap steel, 3 string cigar box guitar, and celtic harp. It'll be a while before any pedal steel gets up there. But beware: my YouTube channel is unapologetically political, made of improvisations, original blues, and spoken music essays. People who see the world differently than I do are unlikely to enjoy it at all.
That said, you can find it at www.youtube.com/c/jeffmcfaddenmusic Visitor beware.
To your other comments - I understand that any change will be subtle, but isn't that kind of the point? And I don't intend to change gauges, because of the exact issues you mention, although I do appreciate those who mention the possibility.
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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