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Topic: Anyone ever research string movement for the different pulls |
Charley Bond
From:
Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2018 10:43 am |
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If a string, say the 3rd string is pulled up half a note (G#to A), can anyone or has anyone ever recorded that info. i.e. the distance the string stretched or moved.
.013 G# - A Stainless
.013 G# - A Nickel
& so on...
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Steel Guitar players are members of a Special Family |
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Doug Earnest
From:
Branson, MO USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2018 12:57 pm
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| Ed Packard posted a good deal of information on this years ago. The movement is tiny. |
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Charley Bond
From:
Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2018 1:05 pm String movement dimensions.
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I'm sure the movement is tiny. I have some some gauges to assist me in my quest, but I was wondering if anyone had already done some research. I can see the string move, but I can see 002 thousands of an inch, but I can measure it.
I'm going to try using my new found information to increase the efficiency of my copedent. My Guitar came with inline holes in the bellcrank, but my newly made bellcranks are staggered, allowing for more efficient timing.
I'm 75 & don't have much to do...
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Steel Guitar players are members of a Special Family |
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 26 Feb 2018 3:19 pm
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I had considered building a test apparatus to measure degrees of rotation at the changer. Never did but rotation would be easier to measure than linear movement. Rotation would vary with string/core gauge, overall string length (tuning key to changer), and scale length. It would also depend on what your tuning reference would be for each string.
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Jerry Jones |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 26 Feb 2018 3:35 pm
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| Pretty close to 2.5mm (1/10inch) movement of bridge-point to raise an .0115 3d string from G# to A. Varies slightly with string-brand, but for my use the variation doesn't matter. That 3d string raise is the largest movement I have measured on an E9 – all other raises and lowers on any string show shorter movements. |
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Charley Bond
From:
Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2018 3:36 pm string dimension
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Thanks a bunch George. Hope you are well...
I too am studying pull rotation & that info is really helpful. With either dimension, the other can be had, because the radius of the changer finger is measurable
Maybe measuring the pull distance, at the bell crank, on the bottom of the guitar, will make it easier.
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Steel Guitar players are members of a Special Family |
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Nathan French
From:
California, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2018 3:59 pm
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| When I first started trying to design a pedal steel changer I tried to calculate the tension change and angular change (the length of the string doesn't change since that would cause an intonation issue). I don't remember if I succeeded in the calculation. Either way I decided I needed to mock something up to really know for sure. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 26 Feb 2018 4:53 pm
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| Charley Bond wrote: |
Anyone ever research string movement for the different pulls? If a string, say the 3rd string is pulled up half a note (G#to A), can anyone or has anyone ever recorded that info. i.e. the distance the string stretched or moved.
.013 G# - A Stainless
.013 G# - A Nickel & so on... |
First off (as far as I understand it), only the windings on stainless steel sets are actually stainless steel. The plain strings, and the cores (the most important part) of the wound strings are regular "music wire" steel. Secondly, I know some studies have been done on tension, but I'm not sure anyone's done similar work or measurement of the elongation required to produce a certain pitch change, because that distance would likely vary not only with the scale length, but also with the total string length. (Even if the string gauges were the same.) And as Georg said, even the exact formulation of the music wire steel would probably be an additional factor to consider.
In short, there'd be an awful lot of variables you'd have to consider for meaningful data. |
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Charley Bond
From:
Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2018 5:42 pm string change on a pull...
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Well... one things for certain, the string changes as it's being pulled to a different pitch. Knowing & Understanding that information (approximately) is a big help in setting up an very efficient copedent & changer system (ease of playing).
I've been a Tooling Engineer at BOEING, for 30 plus years, using modulus of expansion, stretch this & move that for a lot of years.
When rodding a Pedal Steel Guitar, knowledge or OJT experience is required, to end up with a good resolve. But wait a minute... a used Pedal Steel that has been modified or broke, might well need a chart on the wall or on the computer, to help the next guy in line repair the guitar.
We had 3-4 in line bellcranks for how many yearS, then somebody shows up with 14 holes... this info can help us in the future...
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Steel Guitar players are members of a Special Family |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Stephen Williams
From:
from Wales now in Berkeley,Ca, USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2018 12:00 am
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Georg is right. You can do it by similar triangles.
Distance of string movement/radius of finger = Movement of hex nut/distance to axle
In my case d/.5"= .375"/2.5"
=.08 inches or around 2mm |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 27 Feb 2018 4:31 am Re: string change on a pull...
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| Charley Bond wrote: |
| Well... one things for certain, the string changes as it's being pulled to a different pitch. Knowing & Understanding that information (approximately) is a big help in setting up an very efficient copedent & changer system (ease of playing). |
Personally, I find steels today plenty easy to play; the hard part is the learning! 
| Quote: |
| We had 3-4 in line bellcranks for how many yearS, then somebody shows up with 14 holes. |
I never really understood any need for 14 hole pullers. Having 4 or 5 is really all that's needed. On the other hand, tuneable splits and compensators have come to be a necessity for a lot of players.
YMMV |
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