Exploring Open D and Micheal Messer National Strings

Ian · From: San Francisco, CA

Hey Gang,

Just got Andy Volk's excellent "Exploring Open D and Related Tunings" and I'm absolutely loving it. I've been playing Dobro in open G for years, I've dabbled in D but it never really took - until now. Tuning the low G string down to D makes it rather slack, which is part of its charm I suppose, but after consulting John Ely's string gauge chart I see he recommends a .060 for a low D. I picked up some Micheal Messer National Guitar Strings .016 -.059 - which seem suitable for Open D. On the websight they were described as being a G tuning and the packaging suggests that it's round core facilitates lower tension with thicker gauges. Anyone use these strings? In what tuning do you use them?

Thanks so much!

Ian

Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

I think Strings no matter who they come from some key factors need to be considered. Don't be sold based on marketing a player.

Is your guitar the same scale length as Michael Messer's - if not the sustain will be affected.

String tension = more sustain

String gauge and Scale length help to determine your string tension.

If you are using a Dobro/Lapsteel it can take high tension. A weissenborn can't as it'll damage your instrument.

Step 1
Figure out your scale length

Step 2
Figure out the tuning you desire (sounds like you have it covered already)

Step 3
Use John ely's String gauge chart as a pretty solid guide.

My experience with John Ely string gauge - Excellent

Smaller strings - looser feel less sustain - easier to bend - great for players who need to bend strings up even whole tone or maybe more.

Middle
Better feel and sound - but bending up a whole tone if you are string bending becomes more difficult. Improved sustain.

Large recommendations:
I love them as they give high tension - excellent sustain - a more pedal steel crisp sound - better clarity above the 12th fret

But you have to give up string bending cause it will hurt - but worth it for me.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com

"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist"

Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

also if a string is recommended as .060 and you have a .059 as long the the SCALE length referenced is correct you will be fine.

I usually use strings sometimes .001 or more in either direction depends what the store has available online.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com

"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist"

James Hartman · From: Pennsylvania, USA

I've been using the lighter (.013 - .056) set of Messer National strings for years on a round neck National Tricone tuned variously to standard, open D, and open G. They sound good and hold their tone for quite a while. I also use the Messer Electric Slide strings on an electric tuned to open E or A. Both sets of strings are made by Newtone. Excellent quality.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

For future reference, string tension is absolutely critical when you get into lighter, hollow-neck instruments like vintage Weissenborns, Hilos, Schiresons etc. Most packaged sets will blow those instruments apart if tuned to open-D...or worse, open-G.

Most vintage hollow-necks (and many newer ones) should have string tension <165lbs, and some quite a bit lower depending on condition. D'Addario "resonator" sets are too "tense" for D tuning on most vintage instruments; all of John Pearse's sets are also too heavy. I used to buy packs of single strings and make up my own low-tension sets.

You can't just go by gage as string construction - core type/diameter vs winding - is more critical to tension.

The only "stock" sets I've found that are below 165lbs in D tuning are the Newtone "Aloha" sets.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Ian · From: San Francisco, CA

Thanks for all the replies. Just wondering if anyone used these heavier strings. Also, I wanted to plug Andy's book - great stuff.

Ian

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Thanks, Ian. Glad to hear you found it useful.
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I consider the following chart to be absolutely God-like, in the degree to which it rules my behavior:

https://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm

C.O. b0bby lee the Site Master here, up thar in the "Links." You can cut it out and paste just the chart into a word processing program to tidy it up a bit. Over the eons I must've printed out 30, 50, GOBS of 'em. Guitar students keep copping my stuff.

The chart is based around a pedal steel scale, maybe 22" to 24", and hence also accounts for whole step raises, even step-and-a-halfers.

BUT IT'S ALL RELATIVE. Meaning, if you want to jump a few gauges heavier or ligher, or fiddle around in that mysterious 0.021" to 0.028" G-ish land where wound strings and unwoundies battle for out-of-tune-ess and disturbingly odd loudness and/or muffy mood swings - just move the gauges of the whole chart over based on the pitches. I mean like, mentally jump them all "three frets" if that's your intent. Well dammit I know what I mean... works on all guitars, fretted and unfretted things, m@ndolins & b@njos and all. I have a semi-freakingly large bunch of scale lengths to deal with, and a lot of funny ideas, so there's not a week goes by that I don't dig this up again. b0y do I have a lot of strings. Say "Thank You b0bby."

P.S. (The word "b@njo" must be defaced to remain in good graces here, you'll work it out Cool

)

Brad Davis · From: Texas, USA

I liked the Newtone Aloha strings for convenience, but gave up on them always being backordered when I was ready to purchase. I find almost all other "Weissenborn" sets too heavy. I just buy individual GHS strings of the right type and assemble sets using the original manufacturer recommended gauges. They sound great.

My GT Style 4+ seems to be basically a copy of a 1925 style 4, more or less. The recommended gauges are 14,18,26w,34w,44w,56w. I've used slightly heavier before, but I'm sticking with these gauges now tuned mostly to open D.

Also if you can find them John Pearse now lists a 3170 Light Custom set "for older instruments" that someone recommended to me. 15-56 gauges. I haven't tried them.

Ian · From: San Francisco, CA

Well I finally put on the Messer .016 - .059 set on my dobro (those D'Addario EJ42 do last a while) and tuned to open D they sound great and have a nice balanced tension. I don't think I'd tune these to open G (re: original post) but for open D I'm very pleased.

Cheers,

Ian

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