Tuning: What the Big Boys Do

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I located a book on violin technique through my library because I was interested in seeing if some of the technical aspects of classical violin left-hand fingering could be applied to my six-string playing; Steve Morse, Eric Johnson and some of the “neo-classical” metal shredders have clearly sniffed down this road. “Principles of Violin Playing and Teaching” by Ivan Galamian is a classic in the field, and here is what he has to say about tuning, immediately applicable to the steel guitar:

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

David-Good post. Developing a Good Vibrato that is just right , is one of the prime requisite of a good steel player....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

We didn't have a 100 post topic on tuning for over a week so I guess it's about time to get another one going.

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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

(sorry, couldn't resist)
PLAYING IN TUNE is something that every musician who plays an instrument with a variable tuning should strive for. Every player is responsible for what meets the listener's ear. WHAT IS IN TUNE depends on the ear of the player and the listener. Playing slightly out of tune can even be used to create tension in a solo.

The big boys do whatever they do to TUNE, but most of them do something that's just alike: THEY PLAY IN TUNE. I've watched guys like Emmons, Reece, Hughey, Crawford, Rugg, Weldon, all those guys, set up and tune many times and each has his own ritual -- usually involving a final touch up by ear (if not tuning from a single std pitch, entirely by ear). THEY ALL PLAY IN TUNE.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

We can all learn a lot from violinists. And even something from fiddlers...
I've watched many fiddlers at gigs and sessions around here, constantly retuning and still playing anywhere from slightly to woefully out of tune. Oddly the "out-tonation" is acceptable and even perhaps pleasant to many listening ears.

Many local producers are at wit's end however trying to find reliable session fiddlers with good intonation.

I have a track I recorded here with a european gypsy violinist,(which I just played for Larry and certainly underscores his post!) where he was adjusting his headphones, tuning, and experimenting, all while hearing the track for the first time. That first take sounds like an inspired, practiced, carefully composed performance,with literally flawless execution and intonation. I was completely amazed.
It's in the ears for sure.

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

David Doggett · Posted 24 Aug 2005 9:42 am

Dave, you have to read between the lines (or know how the violin is tuned) to understand all that is being said here. Violins are tuned in 5ths. The difference between ET and natural (JI) for 5ths is negligible. There is no conflict between ET and JI on the open strings of a violin, because there are no pesky 3rds, 6ths or 7ths. However, in some keys, where a 3rd, 6th or 7th might fall on an open string, that string might sound off. In order to be able to adjust that note by ear and vibrato (as the author considers necessary), it must be fretted on an adjacent string with a finger. In other words, the fixed pitch open strings are avoided where they might cause an intonation problem, and in order to use vibrato. Also, a violin does not play chords, but only single notes, and occassionally double stops. So violinists are free to concentrate on playing their single notes in harmony with the ensemble, with little regard for internal conflicts within the instrument's own chords. So yes, an out of tune violin can be played in tune, because it plays fretless single notes that are adjusted by ear.

The pedal steel is a very different animal. It plays chords, many chords. It is a very unique instrument, in that it has fixed pitch strings and pedal stops (like a piano or harp), but is played fretless with a bar, except at the nut. The independent tuning of the strings and pedal/knee stops, and the movable bar, allow many commonly used chords to be tuned with natural JI intervals, with no conflicts, even though they contain 3rds, 6ths and 7ths. And the pedal steel may be the only instrument that can do that in all keys. However, some combinations (e.g., A pedal and F lever) cause problems at the nut. Tuning compensators can fix some of these problems. But fully loaded instruments with many pedals and knees are capable of many chords with virtually any string becoming the root for some chord. Eventually it becomes impossible to add enough compensators for all of them.

Therefore, which method of tuning one prefers has something to do with how the instrument is set up, how much one plays at the nut, and the type of music and chords that are played. Those who play simpler copedants, and use mostly the common chords using the bar, tend to prefer the sweet sound of natural JI tuning (often referred to as tuning the old fashion way by ear). Those who use complicated copedents and complicated chords tend to find it necessary to tune mostly ET (everything straight up by a meter). Many, if not most players tune some compromise between the two.

So the bottom line of the above author is true for steel - no single tuning system will always be right. But we have our own problems and solutions that no other instrument has, certainly not the violin.

Unlike a violin, I don't think one can play in tune what is normally expected on steel, if the instrument is out of tune. Sure you could play two note chords and use slants to compensate. But you could not play three and four note chords in tune, both at the nut, and with the bar, and use all the pedals and knees in their usual manner, if the strings and stops are out of tune.

Always in these tuning threads someone says, "It doesn't matter how you tune, as long as you play in tune." I don't completely agree with that. Of course, if you cannot play in tune, no tuning system will cure that. And a person with good ear-hand control can make any instrument sound better than someone with poor control and a tin ear. But if a guitar is too far out, no one is going to be able to make it sound its or their best. As far as the different tuning systems go, one will be easier to play in tune with some instruments and playing styles, and another might be easier with other instruments and playing styles. The system chosen does matter, and it pays to experiment with both, and in between. The top pros think it matters, and they develop a tuning system that works best for them, although each might be a little different. People always seem concerned about saving novices from the tuning problems and compromises inherent in the steel guitar. I'm not sure this is such a good idea. Learning about the tuning problems and how to deal with them seems like it is a valuable part of learning the instrument.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 24 August 2005 at 11:46 AM.]

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

quote:
Hmmm. So, everybody’s right? How liberal!

Just as I was saying all along.
Vindication is best served with an even temperament. Notice, I didn't say 'equal'.

Roger Edgington · From: San Antonio, Texas USA

David,nice reply. I totally agree.

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