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Topic: Set lists showing keys of songs |
Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 25 Jan 2018 6:37 pm |
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I’ve been playing lap steel in a rock & blues band for a few months now. The band leader hands out set lists at gigs but the key of the tunes is never listed. I’m used to having that info in front of me. When I request the keys, he tells me that the pros never lists the keys on their set lists. So he won’t do it.
So am I being a wimp needing a crutch? We haven’t been playing together that long for me to memorize each tune’s key.
_________________
To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 25 Jan 2018 7:06 pm
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| I believe he's wrong. How could even Paul Franklin kick off a song without knowing the key. If perhaps he said the "pros" remembered the key from the last job, that would be different(always carry a pencil !) JS |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 25 Jan 2018 7:16 pm
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As bandleader, I always include the key in parentheses next to the song title on set lists. It's easy enough to do and can be helpful in a pinch when one forgets the key (or hasn't memorized it yet). It is not in anyone's best interest to withhold information and tell players "it's your problem". If anybody mis-remembers the key and takes off in the wrong key, the whole band's sound, image and reputation suffers. For what? To stand on principle? Screw that.
But, if he won't do that and you can't get the set list in advance (cuz he creates them at the last minute), then all you can do is have a separate cheat sheet of all the songs in your band's repertoire (alphabetized!) and the keys of each, so you can cross check the set list against your list on the spot and grab the key from your list.
Oh, and definitely memorize they keys of ALL tunes for which YOU have to play the kickoff!
That's all I got.
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2018 7:59 pm Re: Set lists showing keys of songs
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| Tom Wolverton wrote: |
... The band leader .. tells me that the pros never lists the keys on their set lists. So he won’t do it.
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Maybe he doesn't know. |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 26 Jan 2018 12:05 am
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Thanks to all of you for your input. Yes, if I'm playing the intro, I better know the key of the song. 😜
_________________
To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 26 Jan 2018 6:42 am
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| He's an idiot. Refusing that info only increases the band's risk of a sub-par performance. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 26 Jan 2018 9:40 am
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| John Swain was right when he wrote: |
| always carry a pencil |
but that still doesn't get round the strange witholding of information that Tom describes. It is quite possible that the guy doesn't know hinself and has learned the songs in a way that does not intersect with regular terminology.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Allan Haley
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 26 Jan 2018 11:58 am
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| What pro or anybody can play a song without knowing the key? I had the same thing a few weeks ago. A one-off gig and no setlist or keys. The bandmaster said, "We do them in the original keys." Not very helpful. |
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Tom Dillon
From:
La Mesa, California, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2018 12:16 pm
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Tom, I agree with all the feedback so far. Every band I've been in as member or sub has provided me some form of set list with title and key. Most of the time there is also some kind of arrangement shorthand for what instrument plays the intro, solos, where the solos occur, are they verse/chorus, etc.
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Tom Dillon
- MSA Legend, On-Trak, fiddles, mandos |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2018 1:33 pm
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You could tell him, for the most part, we don't actually care what the song title is, we just need to know the Key.
Does he use a Capo? Capo players can never seem to tell me the right Key (I basically have no reason to play with Capo users, if I could just remember to ask if they use a capo before I take the gig).
I would just follow him around the stage with the setlist and a sharpie and ask the key for every song and write 'em in until the list is complete.
Tell him apparently he can't afford Pros (I know you are a Pro, Tom).
Nice playing in Phoenix, btw!
Pete
ps
One reason a set list with Keys helps...
I can't remember the Key of the song, during the song!!!
I completely lay out for a while on most every song... I need to glance at the Key list sometimes just so I remember what key we are in when I come dive-bombing back in with my cool Steel part.  |
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Dustin Rhodes
From:
Owasso OK
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Posted 26 Jan 2018 2:21 pm
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Do what Chuck Berry would. Get paid up front and start the song in whatever key you want.  |
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Allan Haley
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 26 Jan 2018 2:33 pm
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| It's true, Pete. So many people I have played with cannot figure out the key they are in when a capo is on- yet they expect the band to transpose in their heads on the fly. |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 26 Jan 2018 4:26 pm
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Bob. No he doesn’t use a capo. Doesn’t even own one. 😃
Maybe if my bandleader says it is pro-level to not have the keys on the list, then maybe we should receive pro-level pay. 😱
_________________
To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2018 4:49 pm
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I used to play some gigs with a guy that never knew the names of his songs, let alone the key. He'd say, "Let's do that Ronnie Milsap song", and we were supposed to kick it off.
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LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 27 Jan 2018 4:01 am
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| Pete Burak wrote: |
| You could tell him, for the most part, we don't actually care what the song title is, we just need to know the Key. |
I played a Shriner dance on bass once, playing a lot of medleys in a pick-up band. The trumpet player would call out '3 flats' and there we'd go.
Groups I was in I made the set lists with keys. I did it for myself. |
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Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2018 7:39 am
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| Jim Cohen wrote: |
But, if he won't do that and you can't get the set list in advance (cuz he creates them at the last minute), then all you can do is have a separate cheat sheet of all the songs in your band's repertoire (alphabetized!) and the keys of each, so you can cross check the set list against your list on the spot and grab the key from your list.
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That's exactly what I do with the classic rock band I play with. The gal singer usually hands out the set list when we get to the gig and I pull out my alphabetical list and scribble in the keys before we start. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 27 Jan 2018 7:47 am
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I had an issue with a set list quite a few years ago.
The guitar player was nice enough to write the key next to each song title...so I thought.
Ends up, that was the first chord of the song.
_________________
Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Richard Smelker
From:
Winters.Texas, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2018 9:16 am
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I am the Praise team leader at our Cowboy Church. I supply all the musicians with books that contain all the songs we do. They include the key of the song, a charted intro and lead sheet and song lyrics. It makes practices go faster and the musicians feel more comfortable - especially the new musician. I also do a list of songs for the 2 morning services and the Wednesday service.I did that for bands that I played with for years - It just makes it easier for all concerned.
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Richard Smelker
assorted 6 & 12 string guitars, a Pedalmaster D10 8+5 to play on, a Roland Cube 80Xl, a Peavey 130, Digitech digital Delay, distortion pedal, Melotron pedal, Keyboards and a MOYO pedal.
A new DAW system that I'm using to create a Christian music CD of original songs. Ordained Minister, Riding for the Brand of Jesus Christ. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 27 Jan 2018 10:23 am
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Lee - that's worse than nothing at all!
Richard, you demonstrate that you don't have to be a "pro" to show some professionalism. Keep up the good work of ensuring that your musicians enjoy what they do.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2018 11:28 am
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| Lee Baucum wrote: |
The guitar player was nice enough to write the key next to each song title...so I thought.
Ends up, that was the first chord of the song.
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First chord is what I usually ask for. At least you know where to start. |
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Bill Cunningham
From:
Atlanta, Ga. USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2018 7:20 pm
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Sorta unrelated, but this reminded me of some Marine from Texas that Dick Sexton and I played for in North Carolina (small world, we were stationed at Cherry Point USMC base at the same time) This dude insisted Rocky Top only had three chords. It went downhill from there. A real winner. Can't remember his name but I do remember they were long nights....  We were young and if you wanted to play you had to do it with whomever you could.
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Bill Cunningham
Atlanta, GA |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 28 Jan 2018 8:24 am
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Good news. Last night he showed up at our gig with a set list with keys written in. Maybe he read this thread. ðŸ˜
Thanks to all of you. And thank you Pete for the kudos. That was my first time playing at a steel convention.
_________________
To write with a broken pencil is pointless.
Last edited by Tom Wolverton on 28 Jan 2018 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 28 Jan 2018 10:32 am
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Cool. Or your mentioning it made him question his professional idea.
There's probably no cure for the Rocky Top blues, though. What, he'd go to the five? There ain't no Bb in bluegrass?
Somebody play Deliverance! |
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Bob Watson
From:
Champaign, Illinois, U.S.
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Posted 28 Jan 2018 3:02 pm
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| Perhaps your bandleader asked a "pro" on the "Bandleader Forum" if he included key's on the set lists and found out that he was wrong not to include them. |
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