Time Spent Tuning

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I think that a lot of players spend 50% of their time tuning and the other 50% playing out of tune.

In truth, a steel guitar can't be tuned to 100% accuracy. I think it's best to spend very little time tuning, and a lot of time playing. As you spend more time playing, you develop the ear to play more in tune.

At home, I rarely tune unless I'm changing strings or about to make a recording. I'll put some time into it then. On a gig, I tune quickly using an electronic tuner to get into the same ball park as the rest of the band.

I may still be playing out of tune 50% of the time but I've added some "in tune" time to the ratio by not spending as much time tuning.

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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
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Mike Archer · From: church hill tn

bob i agree 100 per cent with you
i know when the guitar is out or
if its me
the longer i play the less i worry about
it i put my Es at 440 and tune the guitar to its self works for me every time
IMHO

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

I like that b0b.

Myself I tune it as simply as I can and make sure I get paid for playing it every weekend.

It's worked for 25 years or more.

The times I've been fired, it's been for my attitude, and not, to my knowledge, for any other reason.

Fancy that..

I'd often like to go out front and enjoy the overall mix, but that would be listening, which is not my favorite thing.

Playing is.

Welcome back.

EJL

Joe Drivdahl · From: Montana, USA

Bobby,
I have noticed that too. That the longer I play, the less concerned I am about tuning. I haven't been playing nearly as long as most of the players on this forum, but I used to tune a lot more. Of course all my previous guitars needed tuning more often because they were old and sloppy. I hardly ever tune this GFI. It holds its tune really well.

Mike, you said you tune your Es to 440. Why not 442? I like to be a bit sharp so I can play below the fret mark. It helps me line up the bar.

Joe

Larry Strawn · From: Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.

I tune by the K.I.S.S. method,, keep it simple stupid.. works for me.

Larry

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Emmons S/D-10, 3/5, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

Marc Friedland · From: Fort Collins, CO

I agree Bob. To me, the fun part of pedal steel is listening to it while I'm playing, and not tuning or working on the mechanics of it. Below is something I once wrote in response to another post, but think it's even more relative here.

I consider tuning the guitar a tool to use in order to help in playing the guitar relatively in tune and harmoniously with the other instruments and singers who are also involved in performing with you at that same time. After spending 5 to 10 minutes tuning my pedal steel guitar the rest is up to me. Once a drummer mentioned to me that he had played with a steel player who spent a much longer time tuning up his instrument than I did. He wasn’t saying this because he heard pitch problems with my performance, just that he thought it was interesting. My explanation to that is from my experience, getting the guitar closer to perfectly in tune does not help me play the guitar in tune any better than compared to my tuning it for about 10 minutes. I don’t claim to play perfectly in tune and yes I do hear pitch inconsistencies with some of my recorded projects, but I attribute that to my own abilities and focus, and not the way I tuned or didn’t tune the guitar. I am in no way advocating playing out-of tune, but there are times when as long as you’re close enough to being in tune, the attitude and the feel are more important, and pitch may rightfully take a back seat. An example is the link I posted below. At this particular session, the guitar player wanted me to play one of the lead solos in a cover of ZZ Top’s Sharp Dressed Man. They wanted it to be played aggressively, sort of a like an angry guitar rocker and obviously not too country sounding. I casually tuned my steel about an hour or two before it would be time for me to play. I played along to the track with a distorted sound. When I was done, I said should I tune now and do it again. Everyone was excited and thought it was perfect the way it was and saw no reason to do it again. The bottom line was I knew I could probably play with better intonation if I did it a few more times, but I knew I couldn’t guarantee that the attitude would be more appropriate or that they would even like it as much, so I said OK, that’s it then. I’m sure they’ll be those that disagree, and I fully understand their point of view, but I’m proud of this particular recording even with its pitch imperfections, because everyone involved felt it was “just right” for what we were doing.
http://204.202.15.194/mfmp3s/Sharp%20Dressed%20Steel.mp3

Below are some posts I’ve previously made here on The Forum, that I feel are also appropriate with this particular topic. And no I don’t feel as though I’m contradicting myself with what I said above.

In my experience, for the most part, unless they’re experienced with recording the pedal steel, guitar players, engineers, producers, singers, etc., with relatively very good “musical ears” can’t tell when a pedal steel part is out of tune, unless it’s way out. At a recent session, when listening to the psg track I just recorded, I said I guess I need to redo that pitchy part going into the chorus, and the other part where I sort of stumbled over myself. No one heard it or knew what I was talking about. But when doing electric guitar overdubs, they all heard much subtler discrepancies in pitch and execution. It seems as though they’re very used to hearing the 6-string guitar, and know exactly what they want to hear or not to hear, but when it comes to the psg, they like the sound of it and figure if the player played it, they must have wanted to play it that way, so it must be good. From these kinds of experiences I’ve learned when they say that was great, let’s move on to the next, it may not be so. I realize of course, that it’s my job to do my best to please them, so that should be enough. But IF the session dynamics allow, from now on, I will politely ask if I can listen back to the track myself, to make sure it’s the best that it can be. This also doesn’t guarantee anything, because I can easily over-look a not too good part, or be over-sensitive about something that may not even end up being in the final mix. I’ve also learned to ask if it’s okay to do another take, so they can pick and choose between the two in order to insure they’ll get what they need. Of course, since I won’t be there for the final portion of mixing, choosing the best of the available tracks will be up to whoever is there and in charge. Most of my sessions are for demo purposes or for an artist/group to be able sell a product at gigs, and relatively informal, so I’m not really overstepping my bounds when doing this. But even in less than “professional” recording sessions, they are on a time and money budget. Of course, if I was good enough to execute relatively flawlessly on the 1st or 2nd take, none of this would be an issue, but it’s only on rare occasions I can do that.

Playing in Pitch may be Mental:
Or maybe I have mental problems, but that’s beside the point.
Here is an example from a recent recording session I was involved with.
After listening to a ruff mix of one of the songs, I told the singer/leader that it sounds pitchy at various parts throughout the song. I thought it might be the steel, but I didn’t know for sure. At a later date he went in, and with the producer and engineer took a closer look at the song. They determined that the pedal steel was in tune with the electric guitar, but not the rest of the tracks. The bass guitar sounded in with the acoustic guitar and the piano. Unfortunately, they had me listening to a track of electric guitar which was slightly out of tune, when I played the pedal steel part. The acoustic guitar and piano were not in my mix at that time, and neither was the correct electric guitar part that was in tune. When I came in to redo the pitchy psg part, I listened to only the bass, and acoustic guitar for pitch reference. There appears to be no pitch problem now, with the new track playing along with all the instruments that should be there.
Now to my point!
I played the same steel and it was tuned exactly the same way.
As far as I could tell, I was not making any significant bar placement adjustments in order to play along to the tracks at either session.
Yet, according to the results, I obviously must have been, because there were two different performances.

-- Marc

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Ive been playing a little over 2 1/2 years. I spent 2 years worth trying to tune up. I have a Peterson VS II now. I spent the time to dial my guitar in the best I could, programmed the tuner, and now I spend a few minutes to sock my guitar in tune before I play. I can touch up my guitar even between rides in a song if I need to, though I usually do a touch-up just once a night. I can't play with my guitar "kinda" intune---drives me crazy, and doesn't help my intonation much that way. I can't stand to hear a 6 string, or any instrument out of tune, and the picker just "plowing through" anyways like nobody cares. I do. But that's me.

Michael Barone · From: Downingtown, Pennsylvania

I spend a minute or two checking tuning and stops before daily practice of an hour or more. On a few gigs, about a minute between sets tuning. I've learned to trust the stops. I feel very fortunate that I have an old Sho-Bud that stays in tune 3-4 days at a time, and I haven't broken a string since last December, when I joined the forum and started using Jagwires.

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Mike Barone
Sho-Bud Pro-1 5&4 with RHL | Nashville 112
Assorted Guitars & Keyboards

David Cobb · From: Chanute, Kansas, USA

Mark Herrick · From: Bakersfield, CA

Mike Archer · From: church hill tn

JOE yes a lot of players do tune to
442 and it works very well for them
for me i have always tuned to 440 on
my Es and tuned by chiming in on all
the rest i tend to play a bit sharp
so i am playing about where you are
as i have been doing sessions for a long time i listen and this way i am more in tune
with the rest of the players as per my
old ears that is

Al Vescovo · From: Van Nuys, CA, USA * R.I.P.

As long as I'm in tune with the bass or left hand on the piano, it sounds good. Makes no difference what the pitch is set at, as long as the bass and piano are set with it. In Japan most pianos were pitched at A 441. and were tuned before every performance. Al

Nic du Toit · From: Milnerton, Cape, South Africa

Normally I would tune to 440 (E's), and a few minutes before the gig starts I will quickly check that all the octaves are in tune. After that, during th music, my ear tries to pick up if all is okay. Other that; just play the bugger.

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Nic du Toit
1970 Rosewood P/P Emmons D10 Fatback 8x4
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Gary Lee Gimble · From: Fredericksburg, VA.

There would be "time spent" during a lesson with Charleton if my guitar wasn't in tune.

Nathan Delacretaz · From: Austin, Texas, USA

Amen, Bobby - I have been playing at a local theatre with a very unreliable piano for most of the last 2 years, and I finally just threw in the towel - I tune my Es with A&B pedals down to that cruddy piano, JI all the rest, and away we go.

Sure, there are rough spots, but it's nowhere near as miserable as the constant longing for perfection...call me a slacker... : )

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Thats what I say.. Tune 'er up quick and start hackin'... bob

Roy Ayres · From: Riverview, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

It seldom takes me more than two or three minutes to tweak the tuning on my steel before I play. On trick I have found to be valuable is to lower the string to a pitch just below the zero on my tuner, then bring the string up to pitch. This is especially true when using a keyed guitar.

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[This message was edited by Roy Ayres on 19 August 2005 at 01:28 PM.]

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