Adding Pedals to a 6 String G Tuning

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I have a little theoretical question for those who like to play with copedents. Suppose you could add 4 pedals and 4 knee levers to a dobro G tuning (G B D G B D). How would you do it?

Here's what I have so far:

LKL - raise both G's to G#
P1 - raise both D's to E
P2 - raise both B's to C
P3 - ?
P4 - ?
LKR - ?
RKL - lower both G's to F#
RKR - lower middle G to F

The goal is to create the most versatile copedent while maintaining the open G's bluegrass/blues roots.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6)

Bill McCloskey · Posted 19 Jun 2005 3:09 pm

Well,

As a dobro player, I often wish for a pedal that will lower the B's to Bb. That is really the only thing I crave.

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

Raising the D's to E's give you a minor triad...E G B.....no need to flat the B if that was the reason, although you would also have C9. I believe you could do a whole lot more with A.

I'd rather see an A in there for a G9, Am, Am6, Am7, Dmaj, Dm, Fmaj, Fdim....wow, there's a lot more available by adding that A with what is there right now. Perhaps P4 to lower the 2nd string to A. RKR & P4 seems like a natural move.

That's pretty powerful for a 6 string tuning.

I think the LKR could raise the beer holder and P3 could raise the cigar ashtray. Well, on mine anyhow......

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I was thinking LKR to lower the 2nd string to A. A tunable split with P2 would provide the high Bb for a C7th, G7#9, etc.

That still leaves two pedals dangling. Howard, on your guitar you have a pedal that raises high D and G a full step. You put it there because I suggested it. Is it useful?

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

My suggestion for Pedal 4: raises lower three strings, from GBD up to BDE -- this gives you the top 6 strings of old-school A6 tuning, but 2 frets lower -- BDEGBD -- also in conjunction with LKL and P1, gives you an E7th chord -- BDEG#BE -- both of these are alt 6 string tunings with closer intervals that I use anyway on lap steel.

Or, in the land of practical, it might be better mechanically to lower three than to raise three -- in that case make Pedal 4 drop the first three strings from GBD to EGB -- which creates closer 6th intervals and puts the third on top like six-string C6th.

[This message was edited by D Schubert on 20 June 2005 at 08:38 AM.]

[This message was edited by D Schubert on 20 June 2005 at 08:39 AM.]

Mike Cass · Posted 20 Jun 2005 7:41 am

Cal Hand and myself came up with a dobro tunung years ago that would accomodate pedals and keep the integrity of the bluegrass sound. Top to bottom is like this:
D
A---B
F#--G
D
A---B
F#--G

theres your splits, and changes etc, can be added from there. tried it on a lap steel w/ MSA type pedal box and it worked like a real psg.
MC

Bill McCloskey · Posted 20 Jun 2005 11:16 am

"Raising the D's to E's give you a minor triad...E G B.....no need to flat the B if that was the reason, although you would also have C9. I believe you could do a whole lot more with A."

Howard you are probably right but for me that would be more difficult. I don't like to think too much when I play and I know where an E triad is. I want an E Minor triad to be in the exact same spot, so I don't have to think. That's why I would prefer the B's lowered. I'd get my minor and not have to do any mental gymnastics. I'm sure that what you suggest would be more versatile, but for what I play: folk, bluegrass, Irish, etc I don't really need more than the minor triad to make me happy. And I want it in the same spot I'm used to grabbing the major triad at.

John Poston · From: Albuquerque, NM, USA

Mike Cass-
You shouldn't have brought that one up. It looks a lot like something from the world of banjo that Scruggs did with his cam tuners.

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

Mike Cass -- that makes a lot of sense -- using an open D with the root on top -- pedals 1 and 2 down makes a G chord with the 5th on top -- these pedals will "work" in the same chord & lick sense as the first two E9th pedals from E to A -- also reminds me of b-bender on standard-tuned guitar -- includes possibility of a half-pedal on pedal 1 for a minor chord -- then following E9th analogy, pedal 3 would raise D to E, and A to B -- used with pedal 2 it would be the IIm chord

b0b -- is your goal to start with hi-bass G and see how it can be milked to the utmost with a 4+4 setup?

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Yes, that's what I was thinking. Guitarists and dobro players are comfortable with the G major tuning. I was wondering if a 6 string pedal steel might bring them in to our little world.

Howard's idea of lowering the B to A, combined with my G to F# on RKL would give the same effect that Mike describes but the action is reversed. So I think that one is covered.

I''ve been drawing up a lot of these 6 string charts lately. The C6th is amazing - with 4+4 you have everything but the low notes of the standard pedal tuning. Add a Roland hex pickup and you would have a great MIDI controller!

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6)

Dean Parks · From: Sherman Oaks, California, USA

Mike Cass: What's an "MSA type pedal box"?

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

FWIW, there was feature article on Jerry Douglas in a recent issue of Guitar Player Magazine. He's intimately familiar with open G tuning but...

He was pushing open D -- with the root on the first string -- as the introductory open tuning for guitar players. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the Mike Cass post above. Maybe enhancements on D tuning should be part II of this puzzle...

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

Still thinking about the open D thing from Mike Cass.

Tuning F#ADF#AD
LKL - both D to D#
LKR - both D to C#
P1 - both A to B
P2 - both F# to G
P3 - high D to E, high A to B
P4 - ???
RKR - lower 3rd string a whole step F# to E
RKL - raise 4th string a whole step D to E

Laid out similar to E9th neck...

P1+P2 is complete hi-bass G tuning -- bluegrass players would think of this as their "home" position, with P1 and P2 working like Scruggs pegs on a b****.

P1 is complete D6/Bm7 tuning

P1+P2+RKL is complete G6 tuning

P1+LKL is B

LKL only is B7

P2+LKR is A7

P2+P3 is Em

RKR drops 3rd to 2nd in D, like Emmons, also a split or false split to add 7th to G chord

What about P4? Any ideas? F# to F?

[This message was edited by D Schubert on 23 June 2005 at 08:59 AM.]

[This message was edited by D Schubert on 23 June 2005 at 09:47 AM.]

[This message was edited by D Schubert on 23 June 2005 at 07:25 PM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

P3 - high F# to B? What gauge string?

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

Corrected above, meant 1st & 2nd strings raised a whole step each. Sorry, can't afford an editor and spell-check doesn't catch ordinary stupidity.

Larry Beck · From: Pierre, SD

If this were in a bluegrass context, copying the Keith Tuner changes [lower B -->A and G-->F#] might allow you to echo some of the Scruggs and Keith licks. It also gives a two pedal split lower to th V chord.

just a thought.....

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Interesting. Do dobro players put those Keith tuners on all four B and G strings, or just on the high ones?

Bryan Bradfield · From: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada.

Bobby -

It looks like there aren't any dobroists who use Keith tuners. I'm a dobroist, and I've never been tempted to use them, for 2 reasons:

1) These tuners are designed for banjo. Banjos typically use light gauge strings. Dobros typically use heavy gauge strings. I would be afraid of over-exerting the tuners. I know that some telecaster players use the tuners, but I believe most of those guys that are imitating the pedal steel on a tele are using light gauge strings.

2) I wouldn't be pleased with changers that only worked in the open position. I don't believe one would be able to use these tuners while the bar is on the strings. The devices are used in limited tunes by banjoists, and I believe dobroists would be equally limited or worse.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Thanks for the info, Bryan. I've never played dobro, so I'm really not at all familiar with the art.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

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