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Topic: C6 or U-12 players, pedals 6 & 7 ??? |
Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 29 Oct 2017 6:13 am |
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| What chord does pedals 6 & 7 give you and how do you apply it in relation to the root chord? Usually, I find bits and pieces of a combination of pedals and strings that sound reasonable to add to passing chords. |
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Harry Teachman
From:
South Dartmouth,Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 29 Oct 2017 12:49 pm
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Hey Lenny,
While looking through some Herby Wallace C6th tab, I found the 6th and 7th pedals used together in the song "Night Life". It says that it is an "Augmented 7th+11/-9"..............ooookay. This is on a 10 string c6th, strings 4 thru 8.
Hope that helps
Harry |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 30 Oct 2017 6:43 am
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On 4 thru 8 you get a 7th from P6 on string 6 and a +11 on string 4 from P7. It isn't augmented because string 7 doesn't move and there is no -9 as string 5 doesn't move either, so the result is a 9/+11.
An aug7/+11/-9 would need 5,6,7 & 8, but by the time you've done all that you could have subbed a B9!
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 30 Oct 2017 4:13 pm
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| My head hurts🤓 Harry, your going to have to show me how to use this change. An augmented 7th 11/9 must be that lost chord people talk about😃 |
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Chris Reesor
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 30 Oct 2017 8:12 pm headache relief....
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Talking E9/B6 here,if you start at string 11 E as the root, you have E dom 9 with the #11 on string 6 and the 13 on string 5.
Strumming 9-8-7-6 gives Bmin/maj7, string 5 adds a 9 to that.
Strings 10-9-8-7 is G#mi7b5, 6-5-4-3 gives A#mi7b5.
These are all root position close voiced chords.
Then there are major, minor, dim, and aug triads on all the 3 adjacent string groups from string three on down.
If you start looking at rootless chords and wider grips, the possibilities increase considerably. So, sorry, there is no simple answer for your question, Len.
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Excel Superb U12, MIJ Squier tele, modified Deluxe Reverb RI, Cube 80XL, self built acoustics & mandolins |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 31 Oct 2017 2:04 am
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In Night Life that chord is an Eb7#11 (11th fret on B6, 10th on C6), a tritone substitution for the dominant A7. So the #11 is the A note of the melody and when you release P7 it descends to the G of a plain Eb7/A7 (and thence to the F# of the Dmaj7 tonic).
I suspect that this may be its commonest use.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 31 Oct 2017 8:43 am
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I hope this isn't off topic. Is there a good source for learning chord substitution? That is my main weakness on C6.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 2 Nov 2017 7:48 am
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The simplist way to put it:
If you position your bar at the root and leave it there - pedal 6 gives you a four chord in a 1 4 5 progression, and Pedal 7 gives you a five chord.
To elaborate - that four chord will have a dominant 7th on the bottom.
That five chord will be a maj9. (the John Mayer chord) |
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John Roche
From:
England
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 2 Nov 2017 11:50 am
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I use those pedals similar to Jim's description.
Len, On your S12U, Play an open G6 at fret8 (E's lowered).
Pick strings 9,8,7,6,5.
If you add the B-pedal, if becomes a G7.
Now go to the 13th fret with P7 down, and pick 7,6,5,4,1.
It's also a G6th chord, an octave higher, (unless you play it a fret-1).
Add P6 to make it a G7th.
Play that G6th at fret8 (E's lowered), strings 4,5,6.
Now go back 2 frets with P7+P6 on strings 4,5,6.
That is G6th to C7th. You can add strings 7 and 1 in there too when you use P7 and/or P7+P6 in this manner.
You can add these P7 and P7+P6 positions into any swingy progressions like 145, 125, 1625, 3625, etc.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by Pete Burak on 3 Nov 2017 6:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 2 Nov 2017 2:17 pm
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
On 4 thru 8 you get a 7th from P6 on string 6 and a +11 on string 4 from P7. It isn't augmented because string 7 doesn't move and there is no -9 as string 5 doesn't move either, so the result is a 9/+11.
An aug7/+11/-9 would need 5,6,7 & 8, but by the time you've done all that you could have subbed a B9! |
Since the Eb9#11 is a substitution for the dominant, i.e. A7, if you spell it with A as the root it is functionally an A+7b9#11.
Eb9#11: Eb, G, Bb, Db, F, A
A+7b9#11: A, C#, E#, G, Bb, D#
(Based on the assumption, of course, that C# and Db, E# and F, and Eb and D# are enharmonic equivalents, which is necessary for chord substitution.) |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 2 Nov 2017 4:22 pm
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Yes, of course its function is A7. When I play bass I just play an Eb because it sounds right, without agonising over whether it's an Eb7 or an A7 (on the grounds that the audience don't either).
As for the enharmonics, I wonder whether pianists (I'm not one) think A or Eb or just play the familiar bunch of notes because they sound the same whatever you call them.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 2 Nov 2017 4:37 pm
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It just seemed you were disputing Herby's reported naming of the chord, which is arguably technically correct. It's certainly easier to consider it (also correctly) as Eb9#11!  |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 2 Nov 2017 5:59 pm
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Wow, thanks everyone! Pete, very concise explanation of how to use pedal 6 & 7.
I have homework to do👠|
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 3 Nov 2017 5:57 am
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| Len, do a search for "Tenderly" tab. It(6+7 together) is used often.JS |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 3 Nov 2017 7:40 am
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In the song Mr.Sandman, the first chord of the lyric Mis-ter Sand-man... is an A6th.
On your S12U, Play the A6 using P7 down at the 3rdh fret, pick strings one at a time in this order, 7,6,5,4,1,4,5,6.
Now move down one fret and add P6 to the P7, and play the same arpeggio.
The rest of the song is a circle of 5ths from the Ab7th at fret2 with P7+P6 down the whole time.
You could play that string7 through string1 acsending/descending arpeggio through these positions to drill it in:
A6-Fret3 P7 - Mister Sandman
Ab7-Fret2 P7+P6 - Bring me a dream...
Fret7 P7+P6
Fret0 or 12 P7+P6
Fret5 P7+P6
Fret10 P7+P6
Fret3 A6 - P7
Fret-11 P7+P6 to fret-10 P7+P6 for the "Like Liba-ra-chi" part, but only play the descending notes, fret-11 1,4,5,6, fret10 1,4,5,6, cuz that part is a half as long.
P7 Fret-8 strings 8-4: Please turn on your Magic..
Beam P7+P6 Fret 15 strings 10-6. |
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