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Topic: Clear finish options |
Mike Spaeth
From:
Springdale, Arkansas
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Posted 26 Jun 2005 2:27 pm |
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| This is something that I have wondered and would like some feedback. Since a lot of folks like the natural beauty of wood verses Mica why do builders still use lacquer? I know there are other clear wood finish options that are much more durable than lacquer.Every lacquer guitar I've owned had bar dings.Any ideas? |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2005 5:51 pm
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Mike, I'm NO expert, but many musicians feel Poly[basically plastic] based finishes "deaden" the sound..a Poly finished steel would NOT have as many dings,but may lose somehing in the tone/sustain.
I'll bet one of the many fine builders or repairmen on this forum will have a more definitive answer,,, bob |
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Mike Spaeth
From:
Springdale, Arkansas
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Posted 26 Jun 2005 6:48 pm
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| One finish I was thinking of was a conversion varnish Sherwin-Williams made several years ago. I had used it on an unfinished table and chair set and the stuff was great against dings and scratches.I imagine there could be some sacrifice of tone but you wouldn't think it would be more than a laminate on top of wood. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2005 9:14 am
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A friend mine iames recreations of the old Garwood runabouts, or ChrisCraft runabouts -- we're talking classic all mahogony boats here. The problem with the originals is that you have to revarnish so often. This friend uses a tinted two part epoxy that he thins ten to one or twelve to one, rather than the one-to-one ratio as suggested for construction gluing. The stuff goes on thin, and may be tinted to look like the varnish made before the 1974 EPA changes. The downside is that it is hard, but not so hard that it will chip, so maybe it will deaden a steel?
I build bamboo flyrods and I used a thinned-out West System Epoxy coating rather than Interlux schooner on a rod, but the epoxy made the rod too stiff.
The epoxy is wiped on with a foam piece and hand rubbed. It should not be sprayed unless you are really confident you can get all of it out of your spray equipment.[This message was edited by Chris Lucker on 27 June 2005 at 10:15 AM.] |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 27 Jun 2005 1:25 pm
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epoxy came to my mind when reading the original post. Thanks for writing about your experience with it, Chris. Yeah, I can certainly see how certain properties such as plasticity would be significant issues with a fly rod.
As to sound deadening properties, while I don't doubt that there are issues here (I know that one builder says that after experimenting, he is totally certain that different contact cements used for adhering mica to steel bodies have different sonic properties) I must remind myself that this is not a soundboard (body) of an acoustic instrument. This is a different and lesser level of sensitivity involved. [This message was edited by Jon Light on 27 June 2005 at 02:26 PM.] |
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Mark Vinbury
From:
N. Kingstown, Rhode Island, USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2005 6:19 pm
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I think builders used lacquer because it was the fastest drying,easily sprayed finish avaiable and they still use it because it is a known entity and traditional.
Trying out new finishes when your under the gun to get somthing out the door can be a disaster.
Builders want to reduce the risks and time involved with finishes that's why they use mica.
Also it seems to me that a finish that absorbs a hit and doesn't chip is one that is more elastic and therefore more likely to absorb string vibration,possibly to the detriment of sound.
I'm sure there are new clear coatings that can replace lacquer. KTM-9 sold by LMI comes to mind,however,trying somthing new on an instrument you have spent many hours on and which could be severely compromised by a faulty finish is risky business.Even riskier when stain and color impregnated inlays are involved which could bleed or be affected by unknown chemicals in a new finish. |
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Mark Vinbury
From:
N. Kingstown, Rhode Island, USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2005 6:20 pm
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| ^ [This message was edited by Mark Vinbury on 28 June 2005 at 07:24 PM.] |
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Mike Spaeth
From:
Springdale, Arkansas
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Posted 28 Jun 2005 6:52 pm
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| Sounds like some independant R & D might be in order. I mean coatings have advanced light years and we are still using the same finishes that were used 50 years ago! |
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Ray Walker
From:
Smithfield, NC, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 29 Jun 2005 4:00 am
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I refinish a lot of instruments, including steel guitars. I have read everything that has been posted here and if you are interested in learning how to use the finish that I use, feel free to e-mail me. The finishes that I use has never compromised tone on a guitar and I have "never" had anyone play one that says that. In fact I have heard just the opposite. The things that I do on a guitar takes more time that the normal traditional methods, however the finish is far superior to the old traditional finishes. Just sharing from experience.
Ray Walker
Walker Seats www.walkerseats.com |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2005 1:54 pm
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I can Attest to what Ray Walker just said.
Here are 3 Steels that Ray refinished for three of my friends that I worked on these steels; and each guitar sounded as authentic accoutically and electrified and they look OUT OF THIS WORLD.
Ray Walker is your Extreme resource for HOW TO finish Wood>get the info while you can.
Ricky |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2005 2:59 pm
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| Mike. Nitro lacquer has always been considered the premier finish for guitars. That is why it is still being used. There are new formulations of finish for instruments and some are very nice, but none replace nitro lacquer. As long as it is availiable, it will be used and appreciated on instruments both vintage and new. |
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