Pedals & ankle issue/question

Kirk Hamre · From: Huntington Beach, California

Greetings All,

I am a new member to the forum and glad to be here. I am learning to play a 2001 Emmons E9 neck on a double frame, 3 pedals, and 5 knees. I have not graduated past the use of the A and B pedal, but am having a great time with my limited experience. My question to all you steel vets: When I depress the B pedal and then rock onto the A pedal, I can feel the tendons in my ankle popping over the ankle bones. No pain, just wondering if I am doing something incorrectly, or if I should be streching my ankle before I play? Also, it seems to me that it would be less wear and tear on the left ankle if I depress the A pedal with the bottom of my foot rather than the side, when depressing just the A pedal. Is this poor form or does it matter? My instruction book tells me to use the side of my foot when depressing a single pedal only. One last question on this issue, when I rock on the pedals, it's easy to bump the knee levers if I move my leg/knee...any words of wisdom to avoid this?
Thank you all in advance for any help you can give me on these issues.
Kirk Hamre
Oakland, California

richard burton · From: Britain

It seems to me that the pedal leverages have been set up for light pressure/long travel.
Try altering the rodding of the guitar to reduce the pedal travel.
This will increase the pressure required to press the pedal, but the upside is that the travel will be shorter, hence less probability that the knee levers will be accidentilly activated.
R B

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

I think I know what your talking about from the way you mentioned using the side of your foot. For me, I usually rest my left just above pedals A & B with the left heel on the floor before I press either pedal. Use the bottom of the foot that is under your little toes when pressing A. Use the opposite side when pressing B pedal. With me the left is basically rocking back and forth from the A to B pedal using the bottom. Best I can tell from what you wrote here your actually using the outside of your foot. That's probably why it's popping. Use the heel as a center point to press your pedals. As far as your knee levers, just simply adjust them to give you enough space to where your not bumping them unless your using them. Hope this helps!

Howard Tate · From: Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.

I play the Emmons set up, but some people tell me the Day setup is easier on thier ankle. I can't speak from experience, but if you can get access to a steel with the other set up I'd suggest trying it. Feeling tendons sliding over joints does not sound like a good thing, my elbow does that once in a while, and it hurts and leaves my arm weak for a while.

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Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum S12U, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3, DD-3, Sierra Session D-10
http://www.Charmedmusic.com

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Kirk..I would try what Richard suggested.. get the pedals set up for less travel if at all possible. Also try different things like playing in your socks, sneakers, anything other than what you normally play in... try elevating your heel, different foot positions too.
If that really doesn't help, I would seriously consider trying the Day set up.

What you are describing does not sound like something that should go on for long periods!.. You need to be comfortable when you play, not have to worry about damaging something in your ankle or foot. best of luck.. Please let us know what you try, and what worked and what did not.

btw.. I have been pressing all my single pedals dead on for years.. no side of the feets for me... I never hurt my playing much and I'm sure some others here do the same. bob

[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 29 June 2005 at 04:09 AM.]

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

I suspect that you may be sitting with your body centered to the guitar. Everything is much more comfortable to do if you move over to the right, centered on fret 15-17. This will cause the left leg to extend toward the AB pedals at an angle. Locate the heel of the left foot in front of the C pedal. Now you will be able to "rock" the A+B pedals without twisting the ankle. And a simple pivot on your heel, brings the foot over pedals B+C. Both these movements will feel much more natural. I also adjust the A pedal rod so that that pedal is a little higher than the B. It works for me.

[This message was edited by Bill Moore on 29 June 2005 at 06:53 AM.]

Jack Mansfield · From: Reno, NV

Kirk, I find the day setup a lot easier on my ankles than the regular setup. The pedals are closer to me, and don't have to bend my ankle as much.

John Daugherty · From: Rolla, Missouri, USA

Kirk, I think a lot of time behind that guitar will show you what you need to know. You will find the best position for sitting and how you want your pedals adjusted. You will also get a lot of ankle exercise which will strengthen the necessary muscles.

Lyle Clary · From: Decatur, Illinois, KC9VCB

I would be willing to bet you have the Emmons setup. As in an ealier thread someone suggested trying the Day setup and see if that eliminates the stress on your ankles. I would bet my next pension check that it would. That is why I play the Day setup because I have more flexability breaking my ankles to the left that I have to the right. Also your knee movement is less.

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1969 ZB Custom D10, BMI S10, 1981 Peavy Musician Mark III, 15 Inch Black Widow, custom enclosure

Kirk Hamre · From: Huntington Beach, California

Thank you to all you pickers who took your time to help me with my anke roll problem. In this world of push & shove, it's inspiring to know there are people who are willing to stop and help stangers in need.

I experimented with all of your suggestions and the results are:

I considered all the suggested mechancial adjustments to my guitar. I do have the Emmons pedal set-up. I tried the Day set-up without actually adjusting the guitar...I just worked the pedals as if they were set-up in the Day arrangement, and found my foot/ankle works alittle easier with the Emmons set-up. Adjusting the pedal leverages was a great suggestion...I did not know there was a leverage/throw adjustment on the guitar. However, I did speak to Ron at Emmons and he took his time on the phone to walk me through shorting the throw on my pedals. I have not made this adjustment yet because I am having success in other ways. I did move my body from the center of the guitar to the 15-17 fret location...this helped. I tried resting the ball of my left foot on the B pedal with my foot at about a 40 degree angle, and then using the small toes to rock onto the A pedal with out rotating my ankle sideways... I also rotate my ankle heel-to-toe and make the change without having to twist my anke to the side at all. I can also lift my heel off the floor when I rock from B pedal onto A pedal and this motion decreases the distance I have to rock/curl my toes.Basically my foot and ankle are moving like they would when climbing stairs) While doing all this, my foot is at about a 40 degree angle from the pedals with my heel to the right of the C pedal. I also had success with pressing the A pedal down with the bottom of my foot when just the A pedal down is desired. Using my left foot in the above way has taken almost all the side to side stress and motion out of my ankle and I no longer feel the tendons sliding over my foot and ankle bones. There is a demonstration photo in the "Pedal Steel Guitar" book written by Winnie Winston and Bill Keith 1975 that shows how to use pedals. I was rocking my ankle sideways, 90 degress to the pedals when depressing A pedal, as shown in the photo...this was murder on my ankle. I also discovered the shoes I was wearing were a bit large for my foot. My foot was loose in the shoe and would swim around when rocking the pedals. This caused me to have to rock my ankle even further than necessary to fully depress pedals. I am know using tennis shoes with a thin soft sole that fits snug around my foot...much better. I adjusted my knee levers outward and am know longer bumping them when I rock on the pedals.

I am 41 years old and was beginning to think my ankle was to worn-out to play pedal steel. Thanks again for all your help.

Marty Pollard · Posted 30 Jun 2005 2:04 pm

Try a block of wood under your heel and see how it feels.

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Kirk.. Stick around this place and you'll learn a ton of stuff.. Everyone here is glad to share whatever they can as far as technique,tone, equipment,etc.. SO glad the many suggestions were of some help to you!! bob

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