Fender--Regular Users

Tom Jordan · From: Wichita, KS

I'd like to hear from any of you that are using a Fender 400, 800 or double on a regular basis. I've read the good, bad and ugly here and think that I want one and have been pre-shopping and researching.

I retired my last PSG about 2 years ago and have spent the last 2 years playing 8 string lap steels with a final favorite tuning of A6...funny, I've learned more about the neck in 2 years with out pedals than I did after 15 years with.

I'm looking for something different. I sort of burned out on the regular stuff after that many years of top 40 (not you guys, just me). I found a couple of Fender manuals on the web and was suprised to discover that the 400 and 1000 were set up at the factory with the A6 tuning...right up my alley! I've been studying the pedal layout and playing with the slants on my non-pedal and like the cord transitions...almost backwards, I guess. I might miss the A/B split or may add it?

Are any of you still using this factory set up? My other wild idea is that I could play this guitar standing up by extending the rods. I play my lap this way as it works with my Tele playing. I've weaned myself from the volume pedal, so thats not an issue.

Thoughts or ideas are welcome. Like I've said, I've read the "bad" and am not to scared of the mechanical limitations and I do welcome the "non-normal" sonics! I think you all have steered me toward the roller bridge/changer for obvious reasons as well.

Tom Jordan

John Poston · From: Albuquerque, NM, USA

I have a 400 that is tuned to A6 right now. I have 2 other steels, and I use the fender on about 10-20% of my gigs doing old western standards. I have a combination of the changes from the manual, some typical modern C6 changes and a couple of my own changes on there. It's so easy to change the setup that I'm messing with it all the time, but here's what I have right now.



     1   2   3   4   5   6   K


   ----------------------------


E  |         D#          F 


C# |     B       D


A  | G#              B


F# |                 G#


E  |         D#


C# |     D       C  


A  |                     A# 


F# | E                       G

Having the old Issacs changes on the top of 1 and 2 is a little redundant with pedal 5 (modern pedal 7), but they work for me in different ways.
If you only had 4 pedals, I would use the changes on 3, 4, and 5 for sure and then use the 4th for whatever you felt like doing.
A lot of people would either recommend losing the E on top and adding a lower note, or tuning C# to C and F# to G and setting it up as C6.
It stays in tune great and it's great for changing setups - but it's definitely harder to work the pedals - especially after getting spoiled on newer instruments.

[This message was edited by John Poston on 15 June 2005 at 07:25 AM.]

Tom Jordan · From: Wichita, KS

John,

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the thought and I'll study your set-up a bit to see how that might work for me.

Tom Jordan

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

comment deleted after further consideration, in order to avoid looking stupid, and I probably didn't do a very good job of that either.

[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 15 June 2005 at 12:31 PM.]

Tom Jordan · From: Wichita, KS

Aw, just jump in Ray! An engineer's perspective is always welcome.

Tom

Ian Finlay · From: Kenton, UK

Hi. I have a Fender 1000 which I'm using with a '40s/'50s Western Swing and hilbilly band. Set up for factory specs, but I'm seeing some things I'd like to change.

It's a later one, with roller nut and rocker bridge(s). I've had it a month or so, and done 2 gigs. As it's my first (only?) pedal steel I don't mind the pedal action. It would be nice if the travel was the same for all changes, as I rather like the pedals 1/3/4 combo for a 13th chord, but I can live with it.

So far, I've had to:
- strip and clean both changers (easy)
- fix 2 wobbly legs where the threaded end goes in (easy with chemical metal)
- deal with some tuning instability (so far, all of the problems have been down to too much cable tension - needs a bit of slack!)
- replace the 3-way switch (easy - telecaster part)
- straighten the control plate.. it seems that if it's dropped in the case a bit heavily the control knobs can push the control plate in. My Wife does jewellery making and sorted this in 5 minutes!
- Replace the tone cap (easy again)

and play it!

To me, it sounds better than my Stringmaster for the sound I want.

Ian

Tom Jordan · From: Wichita, KS

Ian, the western/hillbilly gig sounds like a lot of fun. The Fender goes well with "country Punk" too...one of my all time favorites. Thats what I like to play also. Thanks for sharing your trials with your new guitar.

Tom

--spellin'

[This message was edited by Tom Jordan on 15 June 2005 at 02:43 PM.]

Alvin Blaine · From: Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA

Fender--Regular Users?

I use a Fender all the time, but I don't know if I'm regular.
I did have three Fender 400's and a Fender 1000, now I'm down to just one 400 as my main guitar.
I love it and wouldn't trade it for anything, although I have been thinking of looking for an old Sho-Bud single neck.

Frank Parish · From: Nashville,Tn. USA

I bought a single neck Fender 800 for my step son last year. This is a super lightweight guitar with three pedals and one knee. The three pedals are the standard A B C pedals and the RKR lowers the 2nd string a half tone and lowers the 8th string a half tone so you don't get the 4th string lower, kinda like Lloyd Green. The pedal action is very short, smooth and it has rods, not cables. It has the old Fender tuning pan sunk down in the body. It's a black formica so you know it sounds better! The guitar has that real true Fender sound like the old 400's but a it's a little more modern. If you can get used to that one knee lever thing, you can go out and play about anything you want. You have to slant the bar to get the 8th string raises but that makes it cool too. I like it and the tone is terrific. I haven't weighed the guitar but I'd say it's close to around 30 pounds maybe. It won't stay in tune as well as my Carter guitar but it really ain't all that bad. I wouldn't be afraid to take it out on a gig.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Frank, that guitar probably isn't an 800 (they were all cable-operated w/6 standard floor pedals). More than likely, you have one of the wood cabinet Fender guitars that was made by Sho~Bud. According to Bobbe, they made them only for about a year, but they did make a few thousand of them.

Frank Parish · From: Nashville,Tn. USA

You're probably right about that Donny. I never thought about that. I was telling Smiley about this the other day and he was the one that told me what he thought it was. Pretty cool little guitar, good enough to learn on and take out and play too. It's got a Fender logo on front in the middle in metal letters. The guitar is in Missouri so the next time I get out there, I'll take some pictures and post them here and you can take a look.

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

Yes, it's the student model. The fretboard is flush to the body. They also made an S10 3&4 with a raised neck and quite a bit heavier. I like the somewhat wider string spacing on these.

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

I'm thinking about being a regular Fender user someday. I have a 400 and just bought a junker 2000 for parts. The 400 sounds amazing to me through my Webb and NV112, amazing enough to want to take it out on a gig.

DZ

[This message was edited by Dave Zirbel on 15 June 2005 at 09:31 PM.]

basilh · From: United Kingdom

Tom I gig on a regular basis (2-3 nights a week)and use a Fender 1000 for the swing and Hawaiian stuff and a 1970 Emmons D-10 for the rest..
The Fender 1000 can be heard here (115 sound clips) http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/html/live_1.html
http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/html/live_2.html
http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/html/studio_2.htm
http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/html/my_friends.html
http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/html/my_guitars.htm

...........................................

and the set-up is here http://www.waikiki-islanders.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
under "Steel Tunings"

------------------

Kevin Ruddell · From: Toledo Ohio USA

I love the Fender 1000 I got this year and the 23" scale and string spacing is perfect for me in a Santo / Byrd order of things. It seems to have a lot more "body" in the sound dept. than my Fender Dual Pro. The 1000 basically sounded pretty shrill through my Peavey Classic 30 and Fender Pro Jr. EL 84 tube amps . I just found out what is probably better is a Fender 6L6 tube equipped Class A amp . Now I run the 1000 through a Tech 21 pre-amp , Urei eq , Digidelay and power amp to a Peavey Blue Marvel speaker and it sounds really great. I don't listen to much music cut after 1970 so the lack of a modern sound/setup isn't really a factor. I took all the cables off and re-installed as one or two were hanging up a bit. I set them in order of length but I'm not sure if this is right or not . a couple of them had different lengths from the pulls to the turnbuckle. Does anyone know the proper order of installation of these cables ? I have a hard to read photocopy of the manual for the earlier fixed bridge model I got on-line but there's nothing ( readable ) about the cable order that I can see. I have a couple of strings that won't lower to the proper pitch on the outside neck.

Chris Scruggs · From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

My main guitar's are a 1954 Fender Dual 8 Professional (no pedals), a 1955 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (no pedals), and a 1958 Fender 400 (four pedals).

For pedal steel, I can get all the music I want to out of that 400. My main guitar is the Dual Pro, though.

Tom Jordan · From: Wichita, KS

Basilh, nice playing and your 1000 sounds cool.

Kevin, thanks for the tips on the amps-thats good info...

The thing I see here (thank you, all) is that these fine old instruments are being maintained and kept alive. I realize that they are not for everyone and may be a "nitch" guitar but I'm most happy that there are others that think so as well.

Thanks again for the info and tips guys.

Tom Jordan

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

I had one of the student model 3+1, black tolex covered Fenders for a while.

It was a Sho Bud Maverick in different clothing. I had a guy out here compare it, and it was dead-on identical to the Maverick. It was fun, but too short for me (I didn't know about leg/rod extenders) and all the instructional materials started including the second knee lever on about page 5, so I eventually gave up on it. Did play a few gigs with it though, with only a couple weeks practice. A background on dobro helped.

Tim Whitlock · From: Colorado, USA

I graduated from a T-8 Stringmaster to a 1958 Fender 1000 a few years back. I too, play western swing, hillbilly, rockabilly, honky tonk, et al, with a couple of bands. The 1000 is pretty much perfect for those genres. Not having much experience with modern steels, I am pretty satisfied with the performance of my Fender. I did sit down to a Emmons LeGrande recently, and came away very happy knowing that I won't need to invest $2k in a new guitar anytime soon.

I play through a modified silver face Twin. According to the owner (it's on loan while my Twin is being similarly modified), the normal channel has some kind of tweed tone circuit. The reverb channel is blackfaced and has the 56k slope resistor mod, as discussed here on the Forum (search 56k slope resistor). I use an AB switch and usually play the C6 neck through the normal channel for that dry old timey Western Swing sound, and then switch to the reverb channel for more of a honky-tonk Mooney/Brumley sound, on the other neck. This neck is tuned to D9, with the chromatics, and string breakage is minimal even over the straight bar bridge.

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

*

[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 28 July 2005 at 03:36 AM.]

Tom Jordan · From: Wichita, KS

Tim--
"I did sit down to a Emmons LeGrande recently, and came away very happy knowing that I won't need to invest $2k in a new guitar anytime soon."

That's got to be a classic line! No slight to the Emmons guitar, I'm sure.

Gene, I have considered the multi neck guitars but I think I'm a victim of our times...that pedal movement is in my DNA somewhere. Your web site is pretty cool and I'll spend some more time over there to snoop around while listening to you play "Any Time"...great sounds!

After all your replies, I'm convinced that a good Fender 400 is in my future. I'm facinated with the A6 tuning and have been wood shedding several hours per week on it. I'll have chance the middle of this summer to really give it a work out when I get back with the old band for some local work (sans pedals). Denny Turners' work (6th tuning and mode study) has really given me a lot to work with and interestingly enough, the 400 pdf tuning chart has given me some good ideas as far as "bridging the gap" between non-pedal and more contemporary steel playing styles. Instead of using the A/B combo to walk up into the 4 or 5 from the open position, it's sort of like walking into the open position from the 4 or 5. Pretty easy to "fake" it with out pedals.

I think that I've gotten what I wanted from this thread but would hope that you guys toss someting in from time to time.

Tom Jordan

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