advice please A to Ab on C6

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

i have the the A to Ab lower on strings 4/8 on P9 which i hardly use.
could a learned Fo'Bro' help me in unerstandin' this change ?
i've got the Emmons C6 set up
Thanx

Alan Shank · From: Woodland, CA, USA

First, it changes all your open F chords from major to minor. It also gives you an augmented triad on 2,3,4 and 6,7,8.

In combination with pedal 5, it changes the D9 (open) to D9b5.

In combination with pedal 6, it changes the F7 to Fm7.

Herb Steiner, BTW, has a great little booklet, "Pedal Changes and Chords on the C6th Tuning" that covers all the standard pedals and 4 knees (A-Ab, A-Bb, C-B and C-C#). I recommend it.
Cheers,
Alan Shank

Alan Shank · From: Woodland, CA, USA

A further thought about pedal/lever changes, especially those that change one note. Think about how that note fits into different chords, and what happens to a chord when that member changes pitch.

If the note is the root of the chord, the chord name will change, as will the nature of the chord.

ACE minor triad
AbCE augmented triad
AC#E major triad
A#C#E diminished triad

Or, the root may become the 7th.
CEGC
CEGB

If the note is the third of the chord, the chord's mode will change.

ACE minor triad
AC#E major triad and vice versa

If the note is the fifth, you will get an "altered chord" of some type, a "flat five" or augmented chord.

A couple that I use are:

A-Bb turns the open C6 to C7.
pedal 5 (D9 open) plus C-C# gives you another 6th chord, 4 frets up from the no-pedals 6th.
Cheers,
Alan Shank

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Thanx Alan & mailers

i hear & see the major to minor change on P6 no prob
(i have the G to F lower on string 5 which fits it in good too)
10/4 on the Augmented with No Pedals on F6 at fret 5 & Fmaj7 at fret 12
i must admit that when i engage that A to Ab change, it sounds abominable !
i'll get used to it & pick the right notes out
w: P5 i can see & hear the b5 but here again
i'm gonna have to study the phenomena
as for the following you mention, i have them down & understood

" A-Bb turns the open C6 to C7.
pedal 5 (D9 open) plus C-C# gives you another 6th chord, 4 frets up from the no-pedals 6th. "

again, Thanx for the help

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 17 June 2005 at 08:22 AM.]

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

Hold down pedals 5 AND 6 and lower your A's - Ab7. Hold down 5 and 6, lower your A's AND drop the G to F - Ab6. (The G is already at Gb because of pedal 5). Go to fret 9, press pedal 5, 6 and 9 and lower the 5th string (to D), then let it off (to Eb). Lower it again while you slide to the 11th fret (to E), then let it off(to F). Let go of everything while you slide to the 12th fret. The note goes D-Eb-E-F-G, the chords go F6-F7-G6-G7-C.

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

CrowBear-Good thinking on that G to F pull. Nice F major7th 9th.

On that Ab, Curly Chalker, used that a lot in many ways as Alan suggested.
I use it quite a bit.

Listen to this sound, like in "Shadow of Your Smile", there is a part that you use P5 ( D7-9( and the Ab knee together on the 13th fret then let off on the Ab , using the 4th string as your melody note,as you slide into the 12 Fret still holding P5. Very nice....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 17 June 2005 at 10:17 AM.]

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Thanx David
Excellent !

that combo does not sound abominable
i made sense out of it toot sweet

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Al, i've got Jim Loessberg's tab to the shadow of your smile
boy, are there a bunch of neat chords & positions on that one !
could you give me the bar or section that you mention so i can see if what you suggest can substitute for what i've got on the tab ?
key of G
Thanx

Jazz is not dead
it just smells funny

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 17 June 2005 at 11:11 AM.]

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

Think I'll have the A to A-flat put on a KL on my C6th neck. I'm sending my D-10 Carter back to CARTER to have pedal 0 added after first of the year. Think I'll add this and a KL on E9th to lower 6th string to a G. Plus a KL on C6th to raise the low E up to a F. That'll put 9 & 8 on it. I pick up something new all the time off of the SGF. Thanks!

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

You then get that this (Ps. 5,6,9) gives you a C6 (w/5th string lower) or C7 at the 4th fret, with a F6 or F7 (4th string raise) at the 5th fret and a G6 or G7 at the 7th fret? -> the previously-noted chords, or to the C6 at the 5th fret from pedal 6 alone, etc.? Having a fifth chord one fret down from your no-pedal tonic chord is a handy thing indeed.

[This message was edited by David Mason on 17 June 2005 at 05:20 PM.]

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

One way I use A-Ab is for a minor 6th or minor maj.7 chord, thusly:

Minor 6th



s.9   s.7   s.3   s.1


F     C     Ab    D

Minor maj.7



s.9   s.7   s.3   s.2


F     C     Ab    E

Joaquin was very fond of minor 6 and minor Maj.7 chords, and without pedals, mind you.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

And, pedal 6, 7 and dropping the A's will give you an approximate Bb major on strings 2, 3, and 4, or a Bb6 if you play a high G sting on top. I say approximate because you're raising the A to B, then (theoretically) dropping it to Bb. My Bb comes out sharp that way, I could muffle through with a slightly tilted bar but it's not a chord I seem to want badly enough to install a compensator.

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