Time for a Stringmaster reissue?

Brad Davis · From: Texas, USA

This is nothing but idle speculation, but I believe one of the obstacles to Fender seriously considering bringing old steels like the Stringmaster back is that vintage prices were too "low". However at this point these guitars are getting exceedingly rare, buying one is usually a waiting game, condition issues abound, and some are being listed in the $2000-$3000 range depending on model year and configuration. So do you think its feasible that Fender could begin contemplating re-issuing a Stringmaster in the next decade or so? And if so, what model would/should it be? Long scale? 22.5"? Push-bottons/blade/switches? Could they even do it right? I'm guessing the pickups are doable, but could the get or substitute the right wood to get "the" sound? And if the MSRP might have to be something like $4000 then who could or would buy them? Or even crazier, should they reissue Dual Pros and Customs? Imagine what this could do for the dearth of good parts of any kind available for old Fender steels, if Fender finally made them available and sold some on the side.

Well a person can dream anyway.

Bill Sinclair · From: Waynesboro, PA, USA

Brad,
Check out the Stringmaster inspired guitars that Gary Rue is building and the bodies and parts that Jimmy Hudson is making available. There are other fine multi-neck console builders out there like Ram guitars and of course Todd Clinesmith. A number of Remington consoles are out there as well. Between all those builders (including several I'm just not thinking of at the moment) and a fair number of vintage consoles still in circulation, anyone who is serious about playing a console can get/build one for a reasonable price. Probably too much of a niche market for Fender to re-enter. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong though.

Mark Eaton · Posted 26 Sep 2017 2:55 pm

Excellent point by Bill, and I think most of us are aware of the alternatives he mentions in his post.

It's a little bit like how you can no longer get a new American made resonator guitar with the "Dobro" logo on the headstock. Gibson did a fine job of running the brand into the ground. They bought the company in 1993, kept production going in Huntington Beach, CA until 1997. After shutting down the Calif. operation they resumed production in Nashville in 1998 which was essentially the beginning of the end.

The good news that came out of that is a number of small boutique resonator builders were able to gain a foothold in the market, same as lap steel and non-pedal builders since Fender discontinued the Stringmaster if memory serves in 1981.

But for those of us who inhabit this corner of the guitar world, there's something cool or even romantic about a resonator guitar with "Dobro" on the headstock or a steel guitar with "Fender" as the logo.

Check out the link below. This is a Fender S-8 that was built at the Custom Shop in California several years ago for the NAMM show. I wondered where it ended up. Turns out it is for sale at a music store in Germany. It had been previously residing at the Fender showroom in DÃ¼sseldorf.

It's made from koa. The original "list" price which of course no one ever pays, just like you never pay list for a Martin D-28, was $12,000. I remember thinking when it was shown at NAMM that perhaps one could buy it for say 30% off list, which would have been $8400. Yikes!

It's still a long ways from a bargain. 5900 Euros which translates to $6957 U.S.

Double yikes!

https://www.station-musicshop.de/Fender-CS-Lap-Steel-Deluxe-8-Koa-Paul-Waller/en
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Mark

Mark Eaton · Posted 26 Sep 2017 3:08 pm

Here is an image of the guitar for sale in Germany.

Obviously if Fender starting producing these again and they were part of the regular assembly line, and didn't use wood like koa, they would go for a considerably lower price.

The question is, how much lower? They might still be alot more expensive than a clean S-8 or D-8 from the '50s and '6os.

And would they even try? I wonder how many Fender could sell in a year? Might not be nearly enough to justify bringing them back into existence.

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Mark

Brad Davis · From: Texas, USA

Thanks Bill, I found the video where Gary Rue talks some about what he's doing, basically building a S-8 Stringmaster clone that Fender never made. I found the part where he talks about working with a machinist who resorted to machining the tuner pan out of a solid block very interesting... that's basically what I had done to re-create some bridge covers, but of course all of that stuff was stamped originally. I hear and read sometimes about Race and Olmsted Tool & Die being so instrumental in Fender's early years, and wonder if they were the ones who really figured out how to tool up for those crazy tuner pans and other stamped parts that are so hard to reproduce. I would have thought the Kluson repro pans would do in this instance though.

I'd kind of like to see a repro of the long scale guitar myself. It may be a bit much to say that it's really a different guitar from the later Stringmasters (or maybe not), but there are distinctive design elements for sure.

As for Dobro(TM), the sales at this point can hardly be a blip on Gibson's radar. I wonder why they don't just sell or license the brand to someone who will do it right like Beard. Of course he's built his own brand up to the point he may not want it, but it's so iconic would probably be hard to turn down regardless. During Nashville production I guess Gibson made some good guitars, but there were also a lot of quality complaints as I recall.

Fender and Gibson both made a half-hearted lackluster effort at dipping a toe back into lap steels in recent years. I don't know what kind of praise they expected based on what they actually delivered. I have no illusions about Gibson ever doing consoles again (vintage Console Grandes remain relatively available anyway), but steels are really where it all started for Fender along with amplifiers. And for a lot of us there's just something about playing the same guitars as your heroes, including the name on the guitar. I do like vintage stuff, but I'd also like to be able to get parts for things.

Mark Roeder · From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA

If I'm not mistaken I though I saw a post where Fender had a new Stringmaster at a recent NAMM show....maybe two years ago? I'm not 100% sure on that
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Brad Davis · From: Texas, USA

Could that be the Deluxe posted above?

Mark Roeder · From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA

Not sure.....I've been doing a search to find the old thread
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Mark Eaton · Posted 27 Sep 2017 9:14 am

Mark Roeder · From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA

That sounds right......lots of talk about how much it would cost
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Karl Paulsen · From: Chicago

I think it's entirely dependent on how well the current Gretch Lap des. If it's successful and other companies follow suit, production of a console steel could be worthwhile. A Stringmaster -likely produced overseas or in Mexico- would be easy for them to make and sell well under $1000. Of course we'd be looking at multipiece, painted bodies, but there's really nothing challenging about the production of a steel guitar.

Everything about a Lap or Console steel is well suited for the kind of capabilities they have overseas. The only real specialty parts would be the tuner trays and brige/guard/covers and with the reintroduction of the bi-sonic pickup (with it's metal frame) and some other oddball bits it's clear that Fender can do stamped metal parts overseas well and affordably.

All this to say, if a market for steel's develops a non-USA "Fender" branded stringmaster is entirely feasible.

Mark Eaton · Posted 27 Sep 2017 9:55 am

Karl, are you referring to the produced-in-Asia Gretsch Electromatic lap steel that has been on the market for a bunch of years?

http://www.gretschguitars.com/gear/build/solid-body/g5715-electromatic-lap-steel-black-sparkle

Fender came out with the Chinese-built FS-52 Champ reissue, but I don't know that many folks here jumped on that one.
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Brad Davis · From: Texas, USA

I wonder about the provenance of the tuner pan on that NAMM show guitar (and other parts I suppose). I'm sure the Custom Shop is capable of making just one if they really wanted to, but did they seriously tool up just for that, or maybe followed some less efficient process since it was just one and done. Or more likely its Japanese, OR they just sourced a vintage part and re-plated it? But for $12,000???

I too think these could be made in Mexico or elsewhere profitably (Mexican Fenders are pretty dang nice these days).

Mark Eaton · Posted 27 Sep 2017 11:57 am

Once again, it was $12,000 list price - and of course no one ever pays list for these things.

Going back to the Martin D-28 analogy in my earlier post, in 2017 a D-28 has a list or MSRP of $3299. No one in their right mind would pay that. Martin has a policy for its dealers that no price can be published lower than its MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) which is 25% off list or in this case, $2474.25.

But guess what - there are a handful of Martiin dealers around the country who will sell you a new D-28 for as low as 40% off list, which is $1979.40 but that cannot be published on their website - one has to call and get the price over the phone, and if they are far away from you then have to be willing to purchase one of these D-28s without being able to play it first.

I'm just trying to illustrate the point that the $12K price was never a street price for this custom shop S-8 Deluxe - but using that price fn one's post to express outrage works better than a lower price.

Hey - $6957 for this guitar in a German music store is already outrageous enough! Whoa!

As far as the "tooling up" bit - it's possible they still have all the old stuff stashed in a warehouse.

Check this out: my wife and I took a tour of the Fender factory in Corona (a lot of fun - I highly recommend it) about four years ago. I was watching workers "poking" holes in Tele "ash trays" and the drill press machines were really old and beefy looking, and kind of an olive green color. I asked the tour guide about the age of these machines and he told me that Leo had gone down to the Naval shipyards in Long Beach after WWII and they would hold auctions on machinery and tools that were no longer needed for defense production.

I said to him, "so parts of my 2006 American Deluxe Telecaster were produced on
machinery that might have been used in building a battleship or aircraft carrier in World War II?"

"Exactly" he replied.
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Mark

Jeff Mead · From: London, England

Brad Davis · From: Texas, USA

I get the list price thing, but even knocking it down to the real price its pretty crazy. My thinking was, if you're going to talk about a number like $12k, shouldn't that include making parts like new tuner pans? What else justifies it? Koa is precious but that seems extreme.

Various high quality American-made stringed instruments generally top out at around $5000-ish (for things that actually sell, gaudy and limited/special run stuff can go crazy high $10k-$20k and beyond). A new Stringmaster reissue would have to be less than $3k-$4k, IMO, and then it had better be top notch and American made with multiple necks at that price.

Cool story about the Fender machinery.

George Piburn · From: The Land of Enchantment New Mexico

1955 Single String Master listed for 1000.00 usd >>> 1970 list was 875.00 usd

Amount: 1000 From: To: Calculate Inflation Results
$1,000 in 1955 equals $9,042.40 in 2017.
less 35% to retail sales price = 5877.56

Amount: 875 From: To: Calculate Inflation Results
$875 in 1970 equals $5,603.53 in 2017.
less 35% to retail sales price = 3642.29

PER NECK in todays money.

Are people willing to Shell Out 8000.00 usd for a new Double 8 Stringmaster in a G&G Case (modern version of the original case)?

@ 1500.00usd per neck --- Gary Rue's KingPins are sounding like the deal of this century.
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Karl Paulsen · From: Chicago

Mark Eaton · Posted 28 Sep 2017 10:57 am

Back to the Gretsch for a minute. I think many here have been aware of this corporate arrangement over the past 15 years, quoted from Wikipedia in an article about Gretsch:

Brad Davis · From: Texas, USA

I'm aware of the Fender-Gretsch arrangement. Fender is importing some Gretsch guitars that are really nice these days. Even though it's an import the Gretsch lap steel remains a reasonable mid-range option for a basic 6-string lap steel with an attractive vintage vibe as a bonus. The FS-52 seemed to focus on getting the appearance right, but beyond that the quality by most accounts did not live up to the Fender name. What Fender most decidedly did NOT do was any serious attempt to recapture the material, build and tonal quality of the originals, banking solely on appearance and brand name. So in my opinion the FS-52 deserved the tepid response that probably doomed it. Did Fender expect to get high praise for phoning it in? I already have an assortment of cheapo import lap steels to choose from, cobbled together from bottom-quality woods and mostly standard guitar parts.

The Gretsch, while clearly an import with all the cut corners that implies, seems to be somewhat well regarded. But that brand name is not as strongly associated with vintage steels as Fender, so maybe the same expectations are not there.

But vintage 6-string lap steels asking prices are actually getting quite high. A lot of stuff is hovering around $800-$1000 list. While I don't know if they are actually selling, nor do I think they should necessarily be that high, it seems to me something like a Champion reissue could be done correctly for that price. People routinely pay only $400-$600 for Mexican Tele's that are actually quite nice and have decent-to-good wood bodies.

I will say this.... companies can and do get a few reasonably high quality stringed instruments built in China, it is every bit possible, and if that makes the economics work out a good Stringmaster copy could be built there. Some people would grumble about it, but Chinese manufacture is not a barrier to doing it right. At the same time you won't be able to charge $4000-$5000 for it, probably $2000 or less is where Chinese manufactured instruments top out.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

I bought a brand new American made S10 3x4 pedal steel last year for under $1500. I don't see anything about a non-pedal console that makes it more complicated to manufacture, and certainly nothing that should make it more expensive. If you have woodworking skills and a couple or 3 hundred bucks for George Board parts you can build one yourself, and burn a Fender logo onto it if that floats your boat.

I own a 1956 Stringmaster D8 that I love and wish I could get new tuner pans for it. I just know that stamper is lying around somewhere collecting dust...[/i]

Scott Thomas · Posted 28 Sep 2017 2:18 pm

Mark Eaton · Posted 28 Sep 2017 2:27 pm

If the replacement Kluson tuner pans are not dropping right in - I wonder if it's sort of the "who came first - the chicken or the egg?" scenario.

If these Klusons are that exact, as is claimed in the spiel, perhaps there were irregularities in the Stringmaster channels back in the old Fullerton days? In the pre CNC era that would seem to be a real possibility.

So "exactness" might vary from one guitar to the next.
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Mark

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Jeff Mead · From: London, England

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