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Topic: Open E (or E7) tuning close to C6 on 6 string? |
Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2017 10:31 am |
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I think I'm going to try and stick with one non-pedal steel for a while. I love the sound of my Kay K155 so much, it's all I want to play. So.....tuning....
I'm thinking of keeping it in C6
CEGACE (low to high)
But I wouldn't mind some kind of E that I can tune to, same strings. All I can come up with is this E7:
BDEG#BE
Any other obvious options I'm missing?
Is there another 6th tuning that might be better for this purpose?
Thanks! |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 16 Oct 2017 10:46 am
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E9--just raise your 4th string to F#.
If you want to sound more like a steel guitar, that particular change right there brings you into that playground.
Also, strings 2-3-4 have the same structure as 2-3-4 of C6.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2017 10:59 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
E9--just raise your 4th string to F#.
If you want to sound more like a steel guitar, that particular change right there brings you into that playground.
Also, strings 2-3-4 have the same structure as 2-3-4 of C6. |
Thanks, Mike.......so:
B D F# G# B E ?? |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 16 Oct 2017 11:03 am
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Is this a trick question?
You want some kind of 6th tuning in the key of E?
Have you considered E6?
Either E C# B G# E C# (high to low)
Or if you don't mind changing the string gauges:
G# E C# B G# E
This is the top 6 of Don Helms' tuning which he used throughout his career with Hank Williams, Patsy Cline and many others.
It is also your familiar C6 moved up 4 semitones so everything you know on C6 you can play (although on a different part of the neck). |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2017 11:51 am Re: Open E (or E7) tuning close to C6 on 6 string?
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| Jim Fogarty wrote: |
| Is there another 6th tuning that might be better for this purpose? |
Unless you're stuck on using an "E" tuning, A6 would fill the bill. Just raise the Cs to C# and drop the G to F#. |
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Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2017 11:58 am
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Thanks guys........I guess I wasn't clear. Mike got it.
I want to MAINLY work in a 6h tuning.....probably C6, although A6 would work just as well.......that I can get fairly easily into a straight E major (or 7th) tuning for occasional blues/singer-songwriter work.....ala' Lindley/Sacred Steel, etc.
Mostly wondering if there was a variation of open E tuning that I was missing. |
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C. E. Jackson
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2017 12:08 pm
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| Buy another lap steel. Different instruments for different tunings. Even wives can sometimes understand the logic. |
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Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2017 12:19 pm
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
| Buy another lap steel. Different instruments for different tunings. Even wives can sometimes understand the logic. |
I need very little urging to buy more stuff.........but I also know myself. If I'm playing lap steel on gigs, it's gonna be in addition to either my armpit guitar or PSG and maybe even mandolin........so bringing multiple non-pedal steels isn't gonna happen. Too much to lug!!  |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 16 Oct 2017 2:50 pm
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| Jim Fogarty wrote: |
| Thanks guys........I guess I wasn't clear. Mike got it. |
Ah! I understand now what you were after.
Actually, Mike used to have a brilliant article on his website called "Why C6 is perfect for breadboarding" or something like that, where he outlined all the different tunings you could get from a standard set of C6 strings. Unfortunately, it's not there any more but there was a lot of them.
Last edited by Jeff Mead on 17 Oct 2017 12:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Eric Dahlhoff
From:
Point Arena, California
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Posted 16 Oct 2017 9:03 pm
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Here's what I was able to convince myself I needed for an easy C6 + E13 tuning...
_________________
"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan) |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2017 6:01 am Re: Open E (or E7) tuning close to C6 on 6 string?
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| Jim Fogarty wrote: |
But I wouldn't mind some kind of E that I can tune to, same strings. All I can come up with is this E7:
BDEG#BE
Any other obvious options I'm missing?
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I just posted on another thread about tunings, and it was based on A6 not C6 but C6 is in there too:
basic A6 Low-High
C# E F# A C# E
B11
B D# F# A C# E
C6 (and we know to raise the low C to C# for the C6/A7)
C E G A C E
E7
B D E G# B E
E13
B D E G# C# E
Anyway you came up with an old E7 tuning that was common after the 30's.
Also, the E13 is a tuning old players used too.
If you search the forum there are some chord charts for those tunings. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 17 Oct 2017 6:05 am
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IMHO
12 strings has it all. Get one instrument that has it all and then start woodshedding for years. 
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2017 8:39 am
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| Stefan Robertson wrote: |
IMHO
12 strings has it all. Get one instrument that has it all and then start woodshedding for years. |
Well, I'd then choose a single instrument - with 2 six string necks! |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 17 Oct 2017 10:22 am
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| David M Brown wrote: |
| Stefan Robertson wrote: |
IMHO
12 strings has it all. Get one instrument that has it all and then start woodshedding for years. |
Well, I'd then choose a single instrument - with 2 six string necks! |
2 - 6 six stringers aren't the same.
12 strings means 3 note or more voicings at least for all chords and inversions commonly used.
6 strings is mainly dyads 2 notes - not so great if you don't have a skilled backing band in your living room.
Plus I don't envy the madness that is soloing over 3 octaves on a 6 string lap steel instrument. Why limit your options?
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 17 Oct 2017 10:25 am
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David if you try it I think you'd be quite surprised in a good way.
More strings makes more sense to me at least.
Its like no one ever argues over the logic that is a pedal steel with less than 10 strings as a standard.
12 for a Universal.
As they realised the options available each person trying to find the most efficient or available options with little bar movement.
Why don't we look at Lap Steel Guitar the same?
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2017 12:26 pm
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
| Buy another lap steel. Different instruments for different tunings. |
| Stefan Robertson wrote: |
| 12 strings has it all. Get one instrument that has it all and then start woodshedding for years. |
| David M Brown wrote: |
| Well, I'd then choose a single instrument - with 2 six string necks! |
| Stefan Robertson wrote: |
| Why don't we look at Lap Steel Guitar the same? |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 17 Oct 2017 12:47 pm
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
| Jack Hanson wrote: |
| Buy another lap steel. Different instruments for different tunings. |
| Stefan Robertson wrote: |
| 12 strings has it all. Get one instrument that has it all and then start woodshedding for years. |
| David M Brown wrote: |
| Well, I'd then choose a single instrument - with 2 six string necks! |
| Stefan Robertson wrote: |
| Why don't we look at Lap Steel Guitar the same? |
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Hey Jack I am referring to the concept of a universal method.
All instruments evolve eventually. Hence the pedal steel but I feel that the Lap Steel Guitar hasn't been pushed far enough and when it was starting to break ground with the likes of Tom/Buddy the pedal steel took over and the Lap Steel Guitar was retired.
Which makes it even more exciting as the journey is still not paved yet as to a standard universal tuning. Reece Anderson started heading in this direction but I think didn't have a chance to finish his idea.
So why don't we use all of their knowledge plus the necessity and old recordings to analyse and find a truly universal tuning.
I do note this may not be the road for many of you. I respect that but for those interested I'm definitely up for it and would love to have a deep discussion on it.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 17 Oct 2017 2:10 pm
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I use a traditional E6... low to high... B, C#, E, G#, B, E.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2017 4:24 am Re: Open E (or E7) tuning close to C6 on 6 string?
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| C. E. Jackson wrote: |
| Jack Hanson wrote: |
Unless you're stuck on using an "E" tuning, A6 would fill the bill. Just raise the Cs to C# and drop the G to F#. |
Jim, if you have not tried A6, I recommend that you try it.
C. E. |
A6 is my basic home tuning - I can even sight read in this tuning! Not in others.....
It was also Billy Hew Len's basic tuning, although he used several variants too. |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2017 4:46 am
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| Stefan Robertson wrote: |
2 - 6 six stringers aren't the same.
12 strings means 3 note or more voicings at least for all chords and inversions commonly used.
6 strings is mainly dyads 2 notes - not so great if you don't have a skilled backing band in your living room.
Plus I don't envy the madness that is soloing over 3 octaves on a 6 string lap steel instrument. Why limit your options? |
Let me say that I understand your concept and respect it fully. Frankly, it's a bit beyond my skill level.
I can't play a steel with more than 8 strings....I can't even play a 7 string guitar or a 5 string bass.
For me, regular guitars have 6 strings, basses 4, and most of my steel playing is on a 6 string instrument. I use the 6 more than my 8 string, too.
| Stefan Robertson wrote: |
David if you try it I think you'd be quite surprised in a good way.
More strings makes more sense to me at least.
Its like no one ever argues over the logic that is a pedal steel with less than 10 strings as a standard.
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Well, the only pedal steel I've ever wanted would be the Fender 400 that could be tuned to A6, and it had 8 strings, not 10 or 12.
So I'm very content to play single and double neck 6 and 8 string instruments, as that satisfies my musical needs.
Certainly there are more musical options on your 12 string tuning -too many for me, in fact!
I certainly understand why you and other folks want to play more complicated systems. But not everyone wants that from a lap steel.
Some of us are quite happy with our limitations. |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2017 4:52 am
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| Stefan Robertson wrote: |
So why don't we use all of their knowledge plus the necessity and old recordings to analyse and find a truly universal tuning.
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Stefan , for the first couple decades of the steel guitar's history there was a universal tuning - A low bass!
I am not sure that there can be a universal tuning that works equally well for all styles of lap steel music.
Can you make your 12 string bop tuning sound like Sol Hoopii for Dick McIntire's style? Billy Hew Len or Jules Ah See?
So many steel styles are tuning based that there cannot be a single tuning that works for everything.
I do think your bop tuning is great for modern jazz and could indeed be a universal tuning for that style; however it will not replace historical tunings for those of us that want those old-time sounds, particularly for Hawai'ian music. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2017 6:10 am
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| David M Brown wrote: |
| Some of us are quite happy with our limitations. |
Bingo!
This is a great thread. Lots to digest here. Thank you, David & Stefan. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 18 Oct 2017 7:33 am
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Thanks for the responses guys. I love the steel family here.
Just wanted to say a universal concept should be able to handle ALL genres of music? Otherwise it wouldn't be universal?
So yes I think it could play Sol Hoopi/Billy hew Len or anything else as at the end of the day if the notes are there why not. That's the crucial point.
Besides music is music and as long as I can find the notes there isn't any proprietary note or chord that shouldn't be able to be approached.
Plus most players play triads or less making it even more accessible if we find a universal tuning.
So my thinking is. Why can't you play ANY genre on a universal pedal steel?
Why can't you on a Universal Lap Steel Guitar seriously?
Chords haven't changed and the musical notes are still the same. So with an enough understanding of theory what is stopping us from coming up with a universal tuning?
I don't recall, Sol/Billy Hew Len or anyone playing any new musical chord or notes that can't be named.
Or am I missing something?
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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