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Topic: Which amp for a vintage recording tone? |
Jonathan Shacklock
From:
London, UK
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Posted 8 Sep 2017 6:02 am |
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If you were recording pedal steel in an all 1950's vintage gear studio, what amp would you use for that smaller, thinner, less clean, classic country sound? What would Buddy, Jimmy et al have used to record?
When you hear a little steel guitar distortion on those old records is it coming from the amp, the mic, or how everything goes down on the tape?
I'm not going to be a total purist about it but it seems a shame to go into this with a solid state amp. Everything is recorded live at low volume with the room miked up so I want the right sound to come out of the speaker. I'm after that high, wirey, but warm sound from back in the day. What sort of power and speaker size should I go for - low and small? I'm thinking about renting something for the session so it might have to be easy to source. Playing an E9th Sho-Bud.
Any other advice for recording the old school way is much appreciated. Thanks!
Jonathan |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2017 8:36 am
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you are chasing the impossible.
the sound of those old recordings has multiple things involved in what you hear. the room, the amp, the tape deck, the mics, the console, the mastering amps, eq, multiple transfers etc. and the player!
we have talked about all this before. good luck. |
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Jonathan Shacklock
From:
London, UK
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Posted 8 Sep 2017 9:12 am
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Thanks for your comment Bill. Sorry if you don't think it's worth discussing.
I make no claims for the player. As for the rest of it, this is where we're recording: https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/recording-50s-style
Hence the question. It feels a bit wrong to turn up with a Peavey. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 8 Sep 2017 9:34 am
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Back then the amps were around 15 and 20 watts, 6V6 powered. Fender and Gibson tweeds with 12 inch speakers or so. They were bright and had some early breakup. No Blackface Twin Reverbs yet !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 8 Sep 2017 9:58 am
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| Somethink like a Peavey 112 with more or less flat eq setting, preceded by a lightly set Sarno Earth Drive, shouldn't sound too far off. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Jonathan Shacklock
From:
London, UK
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Posted 8 Sep 2017 1:20 pm
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Doug, that's kind of what I expected given the attention to detail on everything else. But I think their stance is that the band brings the sound, be it modern or retro, and they record the room. That said, they apparently have a 15w Fender (might be perfect but I don't know the details yet and I won't get to try it in advance) and a Peavey Delta Blues amp.
I'd like to get close to the old sound, doesn't have to be strictly 50's but something small and pre-twin reverb as Tony says. |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 8 Sep 2017 2:11 pm
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I love the tone of Buddy Emmons' Steel Guitar Jazz album. Circa 1963.
I have heard is was a tweed or brown Princeton he was playing thru. Or possibly a Deluxe. Sounds devine.
_________________
To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 8 Sep 2017 2:40 pm
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| Quote: |
| I love the tone of Buddy Emmons' Steel Guitar Jazz album. Circa 1963. |
I like it too, but Buddy was not happy with it. Here's what he said:
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| I had planned to fly commercial but Ray Price was making a trip to New York City and offered to take me in his small plane. He said to travel light, so I took a Standel amp with a 12" speaker. When I set up, I couldn't find a warm sound for chords without distorting the amp, so I ended up with ear splitting highs. |
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Jonathan Shacklock
From:
London, UK
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Posted 8 Sep 2017 3:30 pm
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I suspect the Fender at the studio might be a blues junior, I don't think it's anything vintage. I was wondering if one of the new tweed 57 custom deluxe amps might sound about right. I'll try to get hold of something more authentic if possible.
I love the funky sound Buddy has on this record with Shot Jackson. Released in 1971 but it sounds like it was recorded earlier. https://youtu.be/tVAHaObmJiA |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 8 Sep 2017 3:42 pm
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Try an Echosonic
Scotty Moore demos his Echosonic which had a built in echo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5I3rWiseBU
Keep in mind power and clean were not part of the old recordings, everything was mostly tube.
But, Farina Sleepwalk tone is a Fender Twin.
Above, here's one used by Stephen Stills to this day
but for guitar.
Not the same amp but the rear of the circa 50's Twins.
So basically an old vintage amp will get you that retro sound. Or something small and under powered compared to today's choices.
Rental? Deluxe, Vibrolux, Vibroverb, 4x10 Bassman reissues?
A 1964 Supro will get you there too
Steel through a Supro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDP_oMXFtCs
Reissue, not cheap but cheaper than vintage Fender.
A 35 watt 2x10 1690T Coronado should get that "thin" tone you're looking for.
Great Sound On Sound clip!
Recording 50's style...
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 8 Sep 2017 4:48 pm
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Yeah, I think that Buddy/Shot album was recorded earlier than 1971. I'll bet Buddy was playing his tube Standel on that record.
I've done a couple of sessions with my 1959 tweed Deluxe and my push/pull. The amp is only 15 watts so it breaks up fairly early, but there is enough clean volume for recording. The tone is a warm midrange, not much low end, but a nice vintage sound. No reverb, but I use a Holy Grail reverb with it. Playing steel through an amp like this is a unique experience if you're used to a 200 watt solid state steel amp.
My favorite '50s steel tone is Buddy Merrill's live recording of "Steelin Home":
-----> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHGpPr2xXG4
Another great example is Santo's tone on SleepWalk, playing through a Fender Twin, tweed, 1959.
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel
Last edited by Doug Beaumier on 9 Sep 2017 4:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 8 Sep 2017 8:49 pm
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Check into what Deke Dickerson is up to. He has that scene completely together. Also look into Daptone studios in Brooklyn. Since everybody can make world class digital recordings at home a very large percentage of recording studios exist only to create that sound and vibe you are talking about. There is an unending supply of youtubes and articles about how to get the sound you are looking for.
With that I would bring in a Fender Princeton with a 12" if possible.
Sounds like a fun project.
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Bob |
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Jonathan Shacklock
From:
London, UK
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Posted 9 Sep 2017 1:43 pm
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Thanks for all the ideas and pics guys! Lots of inspiration here, I'll see what I can track down.  |
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