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Topic: Manufacturing time. |
Billy Murdoch
From:
Glasgow, Scotland, U.K.
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Posted 19 Apr 2005 11:21 am |
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Hello all,
Without mentioning any brand names I see that buyers of certain guitars are having to wait long periods of time for delivery of their instruments,anything from 18months to 5years.
I would guess that the demand is exceeding the supply,rather than the manufacture time of the guitar causing the wait.
Surely every instrument is not built by ONE person,a lever is a lever,a pedal is a pedal and so on.The component parts of an instrument remain the same so if a bit of planning were put in place an adequate amount of parts could be available at all times.Skilled persons could easily build under the watchful eye of the master builder which will ensure total quality control and a speedier buld program.
Anyway,how long(with all the parts available )does it take to actually build a guitar?
Lok forward to your thoughts.
Best regards
Billy
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 19 Apr 2005 11:42 am
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Actually, the manufacturing which IS done by most vendors is maybe 1, 2 or perhaps 3 folks.
This is not GM or Ford here..
I believe all Carters are built by John and Bud or MAYBE John or Bud..
Last time I had a chance to visit Ron Jr ( 2004) he was building all the Guitars himself.
I doubt it's much different over at the camps of Mullen, Zum , Fessenden etc...probably a few folks involved but I would bet not too many.
But the rest of your equation is accurate, they all must have parts on hand and all items necessary to complete the Instrument. Without parts it doesn't matter how many folks are building Instruments, they ain't gonna finish any !
happy Steel Buildin'...
t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 19 April 2005 at 12:43 PM.] |
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Curt Langston
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Posted 19 Apr 2005 11:45 am
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And Viola! You can buy a new Pro model Carter right off the showroom floor at almost any given time. They usually have several colors of both mica, and even a laquer one or two. IMHO they are as good as any, and better than most!  |
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Hans Holzherr
From:
Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland
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Posted 19 Apr 2005 11:58 am
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I'm sure you meant... And STEEL! 
(French voilà! = there you are!)
Hans |
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John Fabian
From:
Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 19 Apr 2005 12:08 pm
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| Quote: |
| Anyway,how long(with all the parts available )does it take to actually build a guitar? |
Less than a day for any "standard" setup (D-10, S-10, S-12 etc.). |
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Curt Langston
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Posted 19 Apr 2005 12:10 pm
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Yes Hans, I meant Viola. As used in "And there you go,you can buy a new steel in stock" If I am correct, Viola is pronounced wal-lah'. Not viola, (like violin) Is it not?............Anyhoo.......  |
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Hans Holzherr
From:
Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland
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Posted 19 Apr 2005 12:35 pm
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If you didn't mean the larger violin, the viola, then you meant voilà, pronounced 'wa-LA'. The order of the letters really matters...
Hans |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 19 Apr 2005 12:56 pm
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It is a problem for a lot of different folks that they don't want to hire anyone and lose a portion of the profit margin on what they sell, but they get backlogged and end up losing business due to impatience on the part of people like me who realize that you could build a house in the amount of time it takes to get a steel. The fact that there are manufacturers who do get stuff out in a reasonable amount of time is proof that it can be done; the only way it is going to change is when we as consumers decide that we aren't willing to wait for them to decide when they want to build it, and go to the makers who take care of business to get our instruments.
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'62? Fender 400 Pedal Steel, Sierra S8, Oahu Lap, bakelite bars
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Curt Langston
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Posted 19 Apr 2005 1:02 pm
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| And voila! You have the Carter steel guitar........Thanks, Hans for the spelling check....Excuse me while I go bury my head in the sand................... |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 19 Apr 2005 1:10 pm
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Curt, Hans is right
"Here you are" in French is " Voila"
back to topic
i'd say Tony's got it right
also most steels are made according to the steeler's order which vary from one to another and this phenomena would be the cause for delay in production & delivery
some builders subcontract parts (which permits them to refuse them if certain quality standards aren't met & thus saves them $$$) and do mostly the assembly
these builders, i believe, are the ones that can deliver their goods in record time
all the while producing a quality instrument.
some builders find themselves over their heads in orders due to the quality & workmanship of their steels.
(they probably subcontract some parts too but then again some might not)
thus the waiting time on these brands gets longer due to the success of their models & the oncoming steelers that want one.
in their case then yes ! the demand exceeds the supply
small is beautyful & worth the wait
but then i'm a masochist
must be why i love this contraption
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 19 Apr 2005 2:33 pm
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| For the most part pedal steel guitars are custom built instruments. They're not like making donuts. Some are into making production instruments and others are making more custom instruments. If you want to lose your quality and reputation just let someone else try to do what only you know how to do too well. When demand is high you are just going to have to wait, or take up the violin. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 19 Apr 2005 3:12 pm
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The builder of my guitar makes most of the parts himself. He does have some parts machined and he may have a limited number of castings on hand. But that's all. He doesn't make the cabinet (body) until it's ordered, he doesn't make the knee levers, etc until he's ready for them.
"A lever is a lever" is not true on steels. Each manufacturer/builder has their onwn design on the knee levers and how they attach. They are not "universal".
Carter Guitars is probably the most efficient in that they have all the parts and can custom build a guitar in a very short time. My builder, who is one of those that works by himself (and wouldn't even think of having an assistant), has an 18 month or possibly more wait time and told me he has referred people who "want one now" to Carter. |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 19 Apr 2005 3:46 pm
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| You still have to wait at Carter if you want a custom built steel -- sure they have some floor models available with standard 8/5 setups, but if you want a custom built steel you still have a waiting period - it just isn't anywhere near as long as other builders. But the wait will be worth it I'm sure. |
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Hook Moore
From:
South Charleston,West Virginia
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Posted 19 Apr 2005 5:55 pm
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| Quote: |
| You still have to wait at Carter if you want a custom built steel |
I`m sure it would depend on how custom you want it but I just bought a new Carter 8&6 with my setup and got it in under 3 weeks. I am impressed with the quality and the sound.
Hook
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www.HookMoore.com
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 19 Apr 2005 6:26 pm
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| I would imagine that even the builder who takes several years to complete one has more than one in work at any time. The time it takes to deliver a steel can be much different than the time it takes to build one. |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 19 Apr 2005 7:07 pm
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It might be a matter of financing having a little to say with the long wait.
A small builder with a waiting list might need the money from the Sold one to pay for the parts for the next one or two.
At any rate, we have a lot of fine steel guitars to pick from the various builders and most all of them are top quality....al
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Bob Eldridge
From:
Bartlesville, OK USA
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Posted 20 Apr 2005 8:09 am
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Great comments!! I spent some time with Gene Fields (GFI) in Arlington. He makes a heckuva good guitar with real quality and craftsmanship built into every unit. Now to the point of the post ...
I really don't know HOW steel builders stay in business! They're selling to a relatively limited market and the competition has become a bit .. intense? over the past several years. I don't know HOW they do it, but I'm really GLAD they do! So personally, long wait time or not, I wanna give 'em ALL a big "ATTABOY"!!! They all have my undying respect and admiration for the artists and craftsmen they are!!
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Bob's Place bobeldridge@bobeldridge.com GFI S-10D - ProFX2 + 2 Nashville 1000's
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Joe Alterio
From:
Irvington, Indiana
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Posted 20 Apr 2005 9:30 am
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Back around August I was looking for a new steel guitar. In my quest, I found that there were only two builders with minimal wait times.....Mullen and Carter.
I did not ask for the wait time on a Derby, as Charlie Stepp had a handful of steels already built that were as yet unsold....so, I'm not sure what his turnaround time is.
The rest were all from 6 months (Williams) to well over a year (Zum, Emmons).
In the end, a large amount of luck allowed me to purchase a Zum that was set up just how I like it, with a great inlay design, that was just a few months old. So....no wait, good price and one unbelievable instrument backed by Bruce Zumsteg, who bent over backwards in helping me take my steel from *great* to *perfect*.
*************
I think a lot of the backlogged builders (Bruce, Charlie, Bill Rudolph, etc) take a tremendous amount of pride in assembling each and every instrument personally with no outside assistance. I spoke at length with Bill Rupolph a few months back and he went through his process of building steels with me. At the time, he had MANY steels he was currently building.....I believe he did them in batches. Thus, he could build the cabinets for a certain number pedal steels the first week.....the next week, he'd still be on that same batch of steels doing the lacquer finishes, the next week assembling the steels, etc. Then, the next batch would begin. I didn't ask, but I would guess that he was selling a good number of steels....?
This is all not to say that the builders who have a short-turnaround time are doing so as a result of a sacrifice in quality. Quite the opposite.....it's a result of having more people who are experts at building the instruments. Think of it this way....just having one extra person in the shop could cut building time in half.....that's a BIG difference!
I owned a Carter, and it was a VERY well-built instrument. And I finally got a chance to take a good look at a Mullen up close when Herby came to town the week before.....it was a remarkable instrument. I would go so far as to say as well built as any of the other top brands (Emmons, Zum)....
******
So, if you need a steel relatively quick, I feel the Mullen and/or Carter would be great choices. If you can wait, though, you definitely have more choices and I'd be hard-pressed to decide which one is best.
Heck, if you can, go to the show in St. Louis and TRY each of the guitars. They all have something unique to offer (pedal feel, tone, look, mechanics, etc.) and it is up to you to decide which has the best array of features that you want......then you can decide if you can wait for one to be built for you or not.
Joe[This message was edited by Joe Alterio on 20 April 2005 at 10:37 AM.] |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 20 Apr 2005 9:53 am
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Joe-Great post and very educational. I agree with much of what you said.
We have so many good choices these days.
I noted that the Mullen guitar is very good high quality guitar also, although a little heavy for me.
I have had a couple of them and I really liked the mechanics, changer , and pulling system. Very nicely finished too.....al
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 20 Apr 2005 10:00 am
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How steel builders stay in business is a very good question, indeed. Just like everyone here on the forum, we do whatever it takes to "make a living."
I wonder how many builders are fortunate enough to do EXCLUSIVELY steel work, including repairs/restorations, and how many take on non-musical work,... e.g. industrial machining, construction, etc. ..., to augment income. Or have dayjobs to do the same. Some are retired from longtime dayjob careers, I'm sure. Some are surely collecting Social Security. Some might be heirs and some might have working wives.
Have I just listed more possibilities than there are ACTUAL steel builders?
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 20 Apr 2005 1:15 pm
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| Hook I'm sitting on about 6 weeks for my 9+9 Mica which I'm more than happy to do! |
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Cor Muizer Jr
From:
The Netherlands/europe
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Posted 20 Apr 2005 1:24 pm
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make a phone call through the nice Bob Rains
and you doesn't have to wait that long before you get your perfectly build and sounding steelguitar.
www.rainssteelguitars.com
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Cor
soundengineer/steelplayer Rains D10 8×5 RED Goodrich LDR2
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Jack Dougherty
From:
Spring Hill, Florida, USA
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Posted 20 Apr 2005 2:05 pm
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When I bought my Zum in '83...I remember having to wait
5 or 6 months...Even then demand was high...Now a Zum wait is about 18 months....still not too bad after 23 years..
Like eating at a good restaurant....Sometimes the food takes a little longer...As Jack Stoner said...all parts are not the same.....Some can be stamped out and others are "hand made".....That's why they are called "custom" There are a few good "I want it yesterday" steels in the market place. And that's good for the industry. But if you really want to buy a piece of your soul..
you might have to wait for a little while....
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There is no such thing as too many steels!! Zum D10 8/8
Electronics.. constant state of flux[This message was edited by Jack Dougherty on 20 April 2005 at 03:06 PM.] |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 20 Apr 2005 5:12 pm
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| Quote: |
| I really don't know HOW steel builders stay in business! |
Only the biggest builders consider it a business. The rest consider it an enjoyable hobby/artform that can almost pay for itself.  |
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Hook Moore
From:
South Charleston,West Virginia
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Posted 20 Apr 2005 7:34 pm
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Thats Great Paddy, You will love it..
Hook
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www.HookMoore.com
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