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Topic: lock lever for D 9th string on U12 |
Kiyoshi Osawa
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 12 Apr 2005 7:14 am |
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I've been thinking about this as an alternative to using the usual eb lock lever. How about it?
Instead of locking the Eb's, you could lock that D string in. Or maybe even use it the Bb6th way, like raising Eb's to E, and also the 9th to D, then locking it in place for E9th!
Either way you loose the equivalent 10th string, but if you have the A pedal change moving the 12 string as well, you could pull it off, couldn't you? |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2005 7:25 am
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| I use the D string on my E9th a lot, but I use the 10th string B even more. It would be hard for me to play E9th without that low B string. |
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John Daugherty
From:
Rolla, Missouri, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2005 7:37 am
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| Kiyoshi, I think you should leave your setup as is. You can get used to it with enough practice. Like Bob said,it is nice to have both strings to use. I had some trouble with the location of the lever that raised the 9th string. I moved it closer to my leg to make it easier to hold while rocking the A and B pedals. |
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Kiyoshi Osawa
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 12 Apr 2005 7:55 am
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I wasn't going to change my setup anyway, it was just a theoretical question.
I mean a lot of people seem to have passed on the Uni because of the 9th string. So I figured maybe there's something there, you know?
I mean, if you add another change to move the ACTUAL 10th string up to B, then you have the natural E9th tuning don't you?
Just figured if you add the idea of a lock lever to that, then you can use it to lock your self into E9th. Not that locking your self into any one tuning is a good idea, just an option for die hard D10 guys who would like a lighter guitar... |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 12 Apr 2005 8:39 am
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Many uni players can get the D by both lowering the E or raising the B. I mostly lower the E to get the D. It sounds cool coming down and also going back up. Also, the I and 7th clash, and are rarely used together. Whereas, the B and D are commonly used together. So I just hardly ever use the B to D raise and may take it off. The E to D lower also acts as pedal 6 on C6. It is analagous to the AB pedals on E9, in that it changes your B6 I chord to a IV7. I think it works better on a knee than on a pedal. I feel no need to lock anything for E9. Some day I would like to get a lock to occassionally use for B6 to free the E lowe knee for something else, but I would not want to be locked in all the time.
Longtime E9ers have learned lots of stuff with the D string that they think they would miss. I'm sure they are right. But if they had been on a uni the whole time, they would also have learned lots of stuff with the D lever and other uni features that would also seem to be indespensible down the line. You learn to use what you have, and don't miss the stuff you don't have. I just find the grips at the bottom of a uni much easier than extended E9, because you get the "chromatic notes" from levers and pedals, and don't have an extra string in the way that you have to skip over most of the time or block immediately after use. That in-the-way string was tolerable on 10-string E9, but really mucked things up at the bottom when the extra low strings were added. To me it makes more sense to keep it simple down there for chording, bass lines and strumming.[This message was edited by David Doggett on 12 April 2005 at 09:45 AM.] |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 12 Apr 2005 9:48 am
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Many, many years ago I saw an E9/B6 tuning Buddy Emmons was experimenting with. Instead of omitting the D string, he left the first 10 strings alone and added a low E and B in the 11th and 12th slots.
When the knee-lever that lowered the E's to D#'s was used, it also lowered the 9th string from D to B and the 10th string from B to G#. I doubt that it worked out very well, unless he used larger than normal gauges for those two strings. If not, they would have been pretty slack.
Lee, from South Texas |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2005 10:04 am
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| Quote: |
| When the knee-lever that lowered the E's to D#'s was used, it also lowered the 9th string from D to B and the 10th string from B to G#. I doubt that it worked out very well, unless he used larger than normal gauges for those two strings. If not, they would have been pretty slack. |
Maybe not as slack as you think. A lot of E9th players are already lowering their .036 low B to A (the "Franklin pedal").
But let's consider this: how about a lock lever that changes the E9th to C6th instead of B6th. Leave the E strings alone: E9 lock
F# -F
D# -D
G# -G
E
B +C
G# +A
F# +G
E
D --C
B --A
E +F
B +C Then add the standard C6th changes. You'd probably need an Excel to do it, but it's possible.
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 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6) |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 12 Apr 2005 10:57 am
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Very interesting, b0b. Your idea would seem to be very good for a double-neck veteran who just wanted to exactly duplicate the two tunings alternately on a single neck, plus get an extra couple of strings on each. It might well be more practical than a D12.
But that approach holds no interest for those of us who look upon a universal as a new third tuning that combines in an unlocked single neck 90% of both traditional tunings, plus much completely new stuff that results from using all the changes from both necks simultaneously in a tuning where the two relate to each other harmonically and theoretically (the I fret of E9 is the V fret of the same key in B6 mode, and the IV fret of E9 is the I fret of B6). Also, the IIIm you get with the E-lower lever in E9 is the same string configuration as the relative minor grip in B6 mode. Once you get use to these simple relationships, you begin to resolve E9 chords to B6 chords, and vice versus. A lock kills all of that. In addition, I would not want to lose the low III (G#) string in E9 mode. By putting all the A,B,C and F pedal/lever changes on those lower octave strings, and adding a IX (F#) on a lever, it really opens that low octave up for low harmonizing and for thick low chords for blues and jazz in E9 mode. I have also found that duplicate lower octave to be indispensible for classical music. Listen to Bill Stafford and you will hear amazing stuff down there in all kinds of music. Of course he has all of that plus the low,low E on his 14-string. He has turned the pedal steel into a solo instrument, like the piano. Amazing. |
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Dave Van Allen
From:
Doylestown, PA , US , Earth
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2005 5:41 pm
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Excellent, Dave! Very classy.
I totally agree with you on the U12 setup. I love the versatility of the low strings moving under higher voicings. Now, if I could just make them do what I hear in my head, I'd be very happy.
Keep up the great playing, bro!
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Every day is a Great day,
Mike
(aka Sideman)
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