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Topic: Need help with copedant changes |
Don Poland
From:
Hanover, PA.
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Posted 6 Apr 2005 10:41 am |
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I have found that I need to make some knee and pedal changes on my MSA D10 to be more of a "standard" setup. I know this is going to open up a can of worms about different copedants, however that is not my intentions. I already know what changes I need to make, however I am unsure how to physically make the changes. My copedant was very different than anything I have seen before. As an example, my LKL and LKR pull the 4th and 7th string rather than the 4th and 8th I want to pull. I have taken some pictures of my tuner end and the underside and posted a web page for those that care to take a look and attempt to help me out. I am very mechanically inclined, as that is what I do for a living. However I have never even seen the underside of a PSG until I purchased this one. I just need someone to tell me what to do to make the changes I want. Also, take a look at the pictures and look at the nylon tuner nuts. Some look like they may be broken off because the rods stick thru the backside of the nut on some and not the others. Are these nuts still available from MSA or other sources?? It appears to be a 1/8" rod but not sure. Does anyone know what size rods were used on the MSA's ??
Thanks a bunch for any assistance you can provide. Please make your suggestions here rather than thru email so that others can see what changes are being made and make any suggestions.
The pictures are here: http://www.steelin4fun.com/copedant.htm
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1974 MSA D10 7+4
If you ain't steelin' it, you ain't feelin' it !!
www.steelin4fun.com
[This message was edited by Don Poland on 06 April 2005 at 11:43 AM.] |
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Chip Fossa
From:
Monson, MA, USA (deceased)
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Posted 6 Apr 2005 11:36 am
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Don,
I looked at your pics at the link provided.
On the string 7 rod, take the hex wrench and backoff the nylon bushing until it comes right off the rod.
Unhitch the rod from it's fastener finger
at the cross rod where the knee lever is.
Pull the rod out of the finger hole on the 7th string, and see if it will go easily enuff into finger 8. Upper finger for LOWER,
lower finger for RAISE.
You may have to relocate the knee lever rod fastening finger to align it straight on to the raise/lowwer finger. Or maybe bend/offset
the 1/8" rod. Do this for both knees.
The hex nylon tuners typically are not puntured at the end allowing the thread of the rod to poke thru. You still can tune the guitar as long as the thread doesn't bottom out inside the hex wrench. Like ratchet sockets, some wrenches are deeper than others.
Probably any manufacturer's nylon tuning nut will fit another's. 1/8" very fine thread.
Those poke thru ones should be replaced.
Actually, you may as well replace them all if you're going to get down there and do any.
Hope this helps you out. Shouldn't be too difficult to do.
cf
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Don Poland
From:
Hanover, PA.
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Posted 6 Apr 2005 12:07 pm
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Thanks a bunch Chip, that is what I was looking for. I actually have quite a few changes to make. My "A" pedal pulls the 5 and 8 to a C# and a F rather than the 5 and 10 both to a C#. Pedal "B" and "C" are fine. My RKL pulls 6 and 9 to a G and C# rather than pulling 1,2, and 7 to G/G#,E and C#. and the RKR pulls just the #2 to D. I am just trying to standardize things a bit to help make it easier to work with existing instructional courses and tabs out there. I have a .xls file I can post of my copedant if anyone wants to see how messed up this is 
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1974 MSA D10 7+4
If you ain't steelin' it, you ain't feelin' it !!
www.steelin4fun.com
[This message was edited by Don Poland on 06 April 2005 at 01:08 PM.] |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 6 Apr 2005 12:15 pm
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When I've done "re-rodding" like this to move changes around, I find that taking the right rear leg off and standing the guitar on the key head end helps with lining up the bell cranks. You can pull the rod out of it's present finger, put it in the correct one and it will hang straight down to the exact spot that you need to place the bellcrank for the "new" string. Taking the leg off is only to stop you from bashing you head into it by the way. LOL
JE:-)> |
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John Fabian
From:
Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 6 Apr 2005 12:21 pm
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Let's make this easy. The tuning nuts are NOT broken. MSA used a part that was like a threaded hex stand-off for tuning nuts. Both ends were open and the threads ran all the way through. You can back off the tuning nuts until they are even with the rod and the change the position of the rod in the barrel nut in the pulling finger underneath to prevent the threads from sticking out. If you order tuning nuts from George L's, make sure you specify 1/8" rod size for your MSA.
MSA used 1'8" rods with 5-32 thread.
Download the owner's manual located here:
http://www.steelguitarinfo.com/downloads/OwnersManuals/MSA_OwnersManual.pdf
That should answer most of your questions. Other information on rodding can be found here:
http://www.steelguitarinfo.com/rodding/roddinglogic.html
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John Fabian
Carter Steel Guitars
www.steelguitar.com
www.steelguitarinfo.com
www.carterstarter.com [This message was edited by John Fabian on 06 April 2005 at 01:41 PM.] |
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Jon Jaffe
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 6 Apr 2005 12:23 pm
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Don,
First go here: http://www.steelguitar.com/steelmap/mapunder/mapunder.htm
The Carter site gives an excellent review of the mechanics and relationships of the parts. An old MSA is easy to work on, but spend some time planning and understanding the mechanics. I do not think any of the nylon nuts are broken, but they are easily replaced. It seems that they are over tightened and the whole mechanism is out of ballance. This is easily fixed but will take some time if you have never worked on it. MSA tuning nuts, did poke through.
Be patient, there is nothing that you can break, and you will learn much about the guitar as you readjust the setup. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2005 12:35 pm
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Don.. its a five hour ride,but if you would care to spend a day with me here in NY state, I would be happy to set your guitar up for you free of charge.
I have owned/ played/repaired MSA guitars for close to 30 years and I can have yours humming in no time..You'll kill an entire day, but your MSA will be the way you want it to be,,and I'll gladly show you all you need to know so you can do it yourself next time... Its a long drive, but the offer is genuine.... bob |
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Don Poland
From:
Hanover, PA.
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Posted 6 Apr 2005 4:09 pm
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Thank you guys for the replies.
jim...turning the guitar on end is a pretty good idea...gonna have to try that.
John...Thank you for the links. I have seen them before, in fact I have a link to the owners manual from my site. I could not for the life of me remember where I had seen that "rodding" link in the past.
Jon...thank you for the link also, guess I gotta check out that Carter site more often 
Bob...I do appreciate the offer, however, as I stated earlier, I am quite mechanically inclined, I was just looking for some finger pointing( unhook this, and move it here....etc) to alleviate the "unsures" of how to make the changes. I do not even have a decent tuner yet, still using that POS Seiko that the wifey uses to tune her banjo. Gonna have to work on that soon, once I get these changes made.
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1974 MSA D10 7+4
If you ain't steelin' it, you ain't feelin' it !!
www.steelin4fun.com
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