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Topic: How many play using just a preamp through the PA? |
Dick Wood
From:
Springtown Texas, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2017 10:21 am |
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I have a GK MB500 Preamp and this weekend, I am going to try going direct to the PA without using the speaker cabinet in an effort to cut down on stage volume.
My feeling is that it can work but only if the soundman has his she it together.
I would like to hear your comments as to how it has worked or not worked for you.
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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night. |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 13 Apr 2017 3:11 pm
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| You are correct in assuming that by using the pre-amp alone you are entirely at the mercy of the sound person. If the monitor placement is bad or you are buried in the mix this could cause major problems. In this sort of situation, I normally use a small speaker cab loaded with a 10" Weber bass speaker as a personal monitor, takes up minimal space and reduces the chances of human error impacting your performance. |
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Dick Wood
From:
Springtown Texas, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2017 4:01 pm
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The one band I work in all use in ear monitors so we are able to get whatever mix we want as we all have an app on our phones that let us mix as we please.
I figure that I'll have to set my steel out front to get the tone I think sounds good during the initial sound check.
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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night. |
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Mark Wayne
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2017 8:15 pm
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Altering right hand placement and left hand bar pressure, along with a Sarno Black Box and a SansAmp Para Driver DI are the closest I've ever come to a suitable amp-less tone.
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Mark Wayne Krutke
****markwayne.biz**** |
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David Spires
From:
Millersport, OH
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Posted 13 Apr 2017 8:21 pm
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In my opinion, you need something to model the speaker cabinet, mic, and "room" tone. I've switched to a POD HD in those cases. Electric Guitar player in our band uses a Bassman Head, but a speaker emulator made in England, and has also used the Mesa Boogie Cab Clone.
Could a lot be done with EQ after the Pre-amp? Sure, but - there is something about the attack that I think "good" emulation of the stuff that's missing is better than just doing without it.
My $0.02,
David Spires
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2021 MSA Legend XL 10&7; Asher Electro-Hawaiian Junior Lap Steel; '79 OMI Dobro 66 w/ Scheerhorn cone and setup; '64 Hand-wired Re-issue Fender Princeton Reverb |
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Posted 14 Apr 2017 4:37 am
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The sound person has been hired to bring what they think is a pleasant sound to the audience and usually get antsy when the band or individual member's volume overrides the the main mix.
I like Dick Wood and David Spires suggestions because they are about getting one's own sound that is pleasing to themselves:
A note of caution: Be VERY careful with in ear monitors and headphones.
When I was Robert Randolph's guitar tech, in 2002, he was recording at Cello Studios, in L.A., and the band was in the control room listening to a take, and I went into the room where the band was set up to straighten up the room. I took a listen to the mix coming out of different band member's headphones and was floored at how loud they were.
For Robert's stage show, everyone began using in ear monitors, and I've always thought that kind of direct monitor into an ears can easily cause hearing loss if one is not careful.
These are not the days of Sure column speakers.
_________________
Excel 3/4 Pedal With An 8 String Hawaiian Neck, Sierra Tapper (10 string with a raised fretboard to fret with fingers), Single neck Fessenden 3/5
"The Tapper" : https://christophertempleton.bandcamp.com/album/the-tapper
Soundcloud Playlist: https://soundcloud.com/bluespruce8: |
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Craig Schwartz
From:
McHenry IL
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Posted 14 Apr 2017 6:46 am
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I still use my Line 6 pod HD desktop twice a week, I do bring a small berringer monitor for me, just so I can hear myself, It works well with any PA , but be warned its no Vegas 400 with boss reverbs and delays, acceptable is more in line with thoughts here.
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edited:Just a hot tip when settling with the sound man , keep small berringer volume off until hes happy then what I do is bring the volume in on the Berringer, so you get a stereo effect for 8yourself, haha it works nice and nobody knows what your doing except you. Floor monitors can work also but theres no control of your own personal instrument volume, so I like like running with my own Monitor (Beringer)
Hearing yourself is the other half of the battle when jumping onto a PA, another warning also , PA owners dont like to add anything other than voice to there PA , ive had a few kinda freak out when you tell them what your doing , and others have no problem at all.
Note I dont get to use this to much but when I do its freeky awsome
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SO MANY LURES, SO LITTLE TIME....
Last edited by Craig Schwartz on 14 Apr 2017 7:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ronald Sikes
From:
Corsicana, Tx
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Posted 14 Apr 2017 7:36 am Tc M1xl ???
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The Cowboy Church I play at has just went with IEM's. Each band member has a personal mixer. Is it possible to go straight from my guitar into my M1XL to a DI box and it will work ? Or would I need a preamp or amp ? I'm basically electronically challenged, lol.
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Show Pro #26 & #83,BJS bars,Stereo Steel,Tommy Huff cabs loaded with JBL D130's, Wampler pedals,NV112,NV400, Steelers Choice Seats |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 28 Apr 2017 1:58 pm
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| Put your amp on a stand and stick it in your ear. I mean pointed right at your eardrum. You'll play so quiet the band will ask you to turn up but it will be blowing you away. Now little by little slightly turn your amp toward the audience with out adjusting the volume. When it starts to feel not loud enough inch it back to you a little. That is the sweet spot. I try to get all that resolved before the show starts. |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 28 Apr 2017 5:58 pm
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if there is a sound man in the picture then he is the one who will dictate your tone and volume in front house...amp or not... often I worried about my tone, only to hear after the gig from people that band sounds great, but they wished they could hear a steel guitar.... after a while I stopped worrying about it, I would make sure I hear what I'm playing, and didnt care about the rest... if anyone had a complaint, I would point to the sound guy, and tell them to go talk to him, I would then turn around and went to get me a cold beer.....
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www.steelguitarsonline.com |
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Darvin Willhoite
From:
Roxton, Tx. USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2017 7:02 pm
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I played direct in a church band for several years without an amp. I used a Digitech 2112 preamp/effects unit and a Countryman direct box. I had an advantage though, my son was the sound man and he grew up listening to steel guitars, and going to all of the conventions with me. He also ran our recording studio, so he knew how things should sound. Our board recordings sounded really close to finished projects. We used Aviom personal monitor systems and in-ears.
Here's an example:
https://app.box.com/s/l9833qsq36j5svbg2okh
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Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro. |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 28 Apr 2017 11:54 pm
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I use to play the Old Top Rail in Dallas. It's an old famous tonk. They said Bob Wills started it. Last time I played there they wouldn't let anyone in the band use guitar amps. The stage didn't even have visible monitors. They were hidden under grills in the stage. I raised an eyebrow to the situation the first night but thought waht the heck. I'll give it a shot. I plugged my steel staight in a jack in the floor which had a passive high to low balanced transformer. No preamps no nothing. We spent about an hour with the sound man the first night. He first started with the monitors only and got everybody where they could hear good. He equalized my steel to my liking and added some digital reverb to my liking at the mixer. Then he got us to play a few songs and got a house mix. Nobody in the band had amps on stage or preamps. That's the best that band ever sounded.
All depends on the audio engineer. I hate the word soundman. Sounds like they grabbed the guitar players friend and made him a sound man. |
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Darvin Willhoite
From:
Roxton, Tx. USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2017 5:07 am
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You are exactly right David, it takes skill to engineer sound the same as it does to play an instrument. A lot of people think anyone who can turn a knob or push a fader is a sound man, which is far from the truth. We have that situation at the church I currently attend.
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Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro. |
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Craig Schwartz
From:
McHenry IL
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Posted 29 Apr 2017 6:03 am
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David Mirchell, to me thats very professional doing a no amp stage , the volume thats created is heavy to handle sometimes with many players and drummers(not everbody plays traditional country) this high to low transformer you speek of "I want one, do yo know where i could buy one? " I sometimes dont need distortion effects when playin out especially when we are playin country direct into the board, less to worry about also, not that I would do this everytime , jjst want the easy sometimes
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SO MANY LURES, SO LITTLE TIME.... |
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Craig Schwartz
From:
McHenry IL
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Darvin Willhoite
From:
Roxton, Tx. USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2017 6:39 am
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There's a ton of transformer balanced DI boxes out there. Here's pics of the Countryman I use. These aren't cheap, but they work very well and are virtually indestructible.
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Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2017 9:24 am
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| David Mitchell wrote: |
| Put your amp on a stand and stick it in your ear. I mean pointed right at your eardrum. You'll play so quiet the band will ask you to turn up but it will be blowing you away. Now little by little slightly turn your amp toward the audience with out adjusting the volume. When it starts to feel not loud enough inch it back to you a little. That is the sweet spot. I try to get all that resolved before the show starts. |
Using an amp like this presents tone issues too, not just volume. As you turn the amp away from your ear and towards the audience, you will perceive a broader frequency range. With the speaker facing your ear dead-on, the highs may be piercingly unpleasant, even at lower volume. |
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Craig Schwartz
From:
McHenry IL
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Posted 29 Apr 2017 3:07 pm
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Im with you Fred I wouldnt dream of facing it directly at my ear ever, the amp on a stick works well , iguess I should have mentioned theres a swivel and a volume knob so you dont shoot yourself in the ear. It works well for me and others, its versital for using it as a floor monitor also when there are no monitors around , its a glorified hot spot
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SO MANY LURES, SO LITTLE TIME.... |
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2017 10:51 pm
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| Dick Wood wrote: |
| The one band I work in all use in ear monitors so we are able to get whatever mix we want as we all have an app on our phones that let us mix as we please. |
Great way to set up. We mic all of our instruments, everyone can set their mix individually thru IEMs or floor wedge. Most of the IEMs have enough isolation to protect hearing. If other band members complain they can't hear the steel then they are too loud.
I still like having the sound from my amp on stage. Good reports on Telonics direct out, but need to play out more to swing the $$$ |
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