Your thoughts on this E9 tuning change!

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Had a few nice phone conversations with my new friend Kurt Kowalski, who knows steel as good as anyone I have known..

Anyway we were bouncing ideas back and forth, and I was telling him I don't use my D string much... He thought a good idea would be put the low B on string 9, Put a low E on 10...and then drop string 8 a full tone on a lever to get that seventh... I have tried a low E on string 9 once but felt it was awkward... I am liking this idea more and more. It would give me big fat voicings,get rid of the 9th D string I hardly touch, Plus it would still be available on a lever..

The only thing is, I already have 3 E strings in my copedent. I use an E on string #2.. and drop it to Eb-D on a feel stop...that would give me 4 E's, on a ten string... wierd.. anyway ,I always value the input here. I told Kurt I would use that low E a lot more than I use the D.. whatcha think??/ ... bob

Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

Bob, with all due respect.If you're not using your D you're missing a boat load of stuff.Also the option to lower it a 1/2 opens a lot of doors.I would not want to have to play without the D.I don't even like to play without the D to C# change.Best of luck to you...............bb

Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

Just thought of this. Get Tommy Whites E9 video.He teaches a lot of very useful and easy to play things with the 9th string.Once you get the hang of it. You'll be thinking up your on licks. This string is a staple of the E9 tuning.Well come to think of it. They all are.But you catch my drift.............bb

Paul King · From: Gainesville, Texas, USA

I agree with Bobby on this one. To me the 9th string on the E9th tuning is a must for me. I use is frequently.

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

The D on the 9th string is a very important note in the tuning, especially if you want to play anything more than straight major chords, like 9th's, 13th's, flat 5's, diminished, et. al.

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Texas Steel Guitar Association

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Hiya Bob,

I play a U-12 and don't have an open low D
but get to it by raising my 9th [B] to D
with RKR. RKR also moves my 2nd string from
C# [open]- D - D#.
Try retuning your 2nd to C#. It has some unique voicings, and there are a bunch of unison things you can do with 2 [C#]
and 5 [B-C#].

There's a bunch of members who play with the 2nd tuned to C#. Right off the top of my head, Mike Perlowin.

Try it. Be Brave.

cf

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

Bob: I had a GFI with the 10 moved up to the 9th slot & raised the B note there to a D, like the universal players do and I added that E note to the 10th string and WOW lots of nice things with that. Being a Universal player off & on for 30 years, I don't mind using a knee lever to get the 9th string B to D, I agree with those above, that there are many uses for that D note. If I were using only a 10 string E9th, I know I would have it like this, good luck & give it try - you can learn a lot, a good try beats a failure every time!!

Ernie

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Frank Parish · From: Nashville,Tn. USA

I like the way that BE is using his 10 string on E9 these days. He's not raising it at the first pedal at all. Check it out on his website. If I were to change anything on my E9 tuning it would be that but there's too much to do with the 9 string as it is.

[This message was edited by Frank Parish on 19 March 2005 at 07:17 AM.]

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Guys.. I understand your thoughts,but I still won't use that D as much as a low E. I play a LOT of bluesy slide stuff that many E9 players don't touch,and can use that extended bass range.

Most everything I do is majors,minors, a few sevenths,real run of the mill stuff. Also, I have 5+5 on an S 10 so I do have a lot of positions other guys don't have on a "standard" E9 setup.. I am NOT a swing players and rarely have a need for any intricate chordal stuff.

I dunno, I guess you would have to hear me play to understand.. Cheap late 60's country rock style.. That D has been ignored by me for about 29 years, and is not likely to start getting used by a 50 year old thats set in his ways. I am really considering trying this out.

I may just add a pull to the string #9 which would be a B and pull it up to a D,... in any case, as you can see, I am not very good at taking advice from guys smarter than me.. I have VERY selective "hearing"

... bob

[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 19 March 2005 at 08:15 AM.]

Gary Jones · From: Mount Vernon, Wa

After recently switching to a universal tuning I struggled with this for some time. I came to the conclusion that I did not like the standard universal change of raising string 9 to D, and preferred lowering string 8 to get that note.
Among other things, with D on the 8th string on an E9th tuning you can get the same dominant 7th chord you get using pedal 4 on the C6th tuning, only a half-step lower. I find this to be a very useful change.
The bottom line is that you will be giving something up to gain something else. Only you can decide if the trade-off is worth it. (how Zen is that?)

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Gary Jones, KLVX-TV
Fessenden S/D-12U
Bunch of cheap guitars
Big ol' pile of half-rebuilt amplifiers

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

Bob, you've been looking around at getting another steel lately, why not consider getting a 12-string with Extended E9? Then you can still have that D string (you might find a use for it one of these days!) and still get the extra lower range with the low G# and E.

I played D-10's for 25 years but then sold them in '84. Since returning to playing steel in 2000, I bought an old MSA D-12 and been playing the Ext. E9. I changed it to Universal for a while and liked it, but one thing I don't like about the U tuning was using a knee lever for getting the D note. Not that it's that inconvenient, but I don't like using a change on a knee-lever for something I could get without the knee-lever with the regular tuning and then I have that knee-lever available for something cooler.

Changing from playing a 10-string to a 12-string can be confusing, for a while I took off the two lower strings so it was a normal 10-string E9. I put them back on, there's just too much cool stuff there. Think about it.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 19 March 2005 at 09:50 AM.]

Jim Whitaker · From: Ohio, USA

Bob I am trying to incorporate a new, similar tuning on my Zum.
f#
D#
g#
E
b
G#
f#
e
b
g#

I use right knee right to lower my 8th string to a D
I have still my C# on my 9Th string with a pedal
& I can lower my 10th string to an E with a knee lever.
A couple of fellows in Cincinnati are using this tuning & I think I am starting to like it.
A great player from this area ( Chuch Rich )has been using this tuning a while & he gets some great voicings with it.

just my 2 cents

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JIM
"Zum SD10 3/6 """ "74" LTD & Session LTD, Nasville 400, Profex II "53" Esquire, "63 Epiphone, "63" Precision,
"77" Jazz

[This message was edited by Jim Whitaker on 19 March 2005 at 09:54 AM.]

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

Gary, just noticed you work at KLVX! I was at KVVU for 16 years! I'd love to hear how long you been there, what you do, how long you've been in town, where you've played, etc. Drop me an email sometime if you feel like it.

www.jimphelps.com

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 19 March 2005 at 09:55 AM.]

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Hey Bob,
I'd go with exactly what you're thinking of doing! Most of the players here don't have the blues, slide, background to realize what you want to do. I played lead guitar for a lot of years before I took up steel and I personally couldn't live without that low E string. I've played a ten string from time to time and I drop the 8th string to D for the dom7 chord. It's a very nice sounding change to boot. Also with your E's lowered play strings 5, 7, and 8 which is a major triad (1, 5, and 3 of the scale) with the knee lever that lowers the E to D you can add it here to take the 8th string on down to a bIII which gives you a nice smooth transition to a minor chord. Also by lowering your E to D you can do things like "Honky Tonk" with the exact notes as well as other blues shuffle things. Also when a guitar player's soloing, you can carry on the bottom. YOu can't do the low string stuff with a regular E9 unless you had an extended version. I'm working on a 10 string universal which uses the same basic tuning as you're thinking about. Good luck with it and remember "If you do the same thing as everyone else, there's a good chance you'll start sounding like everyone else..." JH in Va.

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Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

"Most of the players here don't have the blues, slide, background to realize what you want to do.".........???

'Scuse me Jerry... how much do you know about my (and anyone elses) background? Over 30 years playing steel AND lead guitar; country, blues, light jazz, pop, R&B, rock, soul, all styles.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 19 March 2005 at 10:38 AM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

The low E is very useful in rock, but to get the full effect you will also need to lower your 9th string B to A somewhere, maybe on your 3rd pedal.

Having your second string tuned to E is sort of wierd, though. You should seriously consider tuning it to D# standard. There are a lot of fast licks that use the D# string, and you're only making it harder on yourself by requiring a lever to get that note.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

b0b.. it IS wierd,but thats how I've done it for 29 years, and much of my playing revolves around it... I am a fish out of water without the E on string #2

I also use that lever constanly.. as much as I use the 4 and 8 halftone drop. I have considered a 12 and may get one.. that's what my new friend Kurt has been telling me... we'll see what pops up. I may change #9 to the B and then add some pulls besides the full tone raise on the A pedal... a lot of good steel players have heard me over the years, and never noticed my funny tuning..

It's just what sounded right to me YEARS ago, and I just got so used to it, that anything else feels funny..Its the same thing thing with that D string.. If it stays a D, it will get ignored,but If I add a low E, it Will get used quite a bit... bob

[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 19 March 2005 at 01:19 PM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Well, if you've been playinng that way for 29 years, there's no point in changing it now! Forget I mentioned it.

Charles Turpin · From: Mexico, Missouri, USA

Where I play Universal and Double neck i feel that D note is more important than the B note. So before i ordered my Universal. I watched Jeff Newmans course on the Universal. He says on his course that he had the E to Eb on the Right/Right knee lever cause if you play a lot of 6th stuff it is more comfortable to hold the E to Ebs on that position.
SO when i ordered the guitar i thought about what Jeff had said. In the area i am we play a lot of country so i figured i would be using that D note on the 9th string more than i would be Holding down the E to Eb notes. So I had the Builder put the knee that raises the 9th string to a D on the R/R and it also Lowers the second string from C# to D. But this is alright with that change cause on E9th you will use the A-B combination or pedals down positions more than the open positions. Even so you can realease it for the open positions. I wouldn't do away with that D note but i would move it where it is more comfortable to hold if you need it.

Universal 12/double10 Zum/two Nashville 400/goodrich pedal/steeldriver/degitec delay

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