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Topic: Stainless" Strings Alloy Questions. |
Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 19 Mar 2005 1:13 pm |
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Alright.
Somebody tell me or point me to the source of how much of what metal(s) added to "plain ole steel" makes it "stainless".
I have been using stainless GHSes for a year now, and I have a stock Sho~Bud bar. I alternate it with my Bullseye inert coated bar, and I can't feel much difference. I'll give that for sure the stock SB needs touching up more than on "pure nickel" strings, but to me the sharpness of the SSes is worth a little touch up, and I don't feel or hear any "grating". Maybe it's just the alloy of GHS. I tried some other brands of SSes and found them grating a lot.
Similar metals do not necessarily "gall eachother", nor do dissimilar ones "lubricate" themselves.
What are "nickel" strings in terms of metallurgical content?
What are "silvered" plain strings.
I have always thought that chromium is a rather soft metal, and I've seen plenty of stainless steel rust, though more slightly than non stainless.
Wouldn't Stainless steel strings being non magnetic or nickel for that matter be a lot less desireable for electric guitars?
In combinations of alloys for string windings, is there cathodic interaction between some?
I'm sure someone like Rick Aiello might have a compendium of this information, and I'd like to be pointed toward it if possible.
There seems to be a lot of less than totally informed opinion out here. I have my share, that's for sure.
TIAFAR.
EJL
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Ken Lang
From:
Simi Valley, Ca
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Posted 19 Mar 2005 4:31 pm
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There is lots of info on the web. An example:
Acoustic/Acoustic-Electric
The pickups used in acoustic guitars are transducer style rather than electro-magnetic. The transducer picks up the vibrations from the soundboard and bridge and therefore, does not require strings with magnetic properties. Phosphor/bronze strings are very popular for acoustic/electric guitars. However, any of the acoustic bronze or brass compositions can be used.
Electric Guitar
Electric guitars utilize electro-magnetic pickups. Therefore, string compositions for electric guitars must have highly magnetic characteristics. Bronze and brass cannot be sensed by the electro-magnetic pickup.
Stainless Steel - a favorite among electric guitarists due to their exceptionally brilliant tone and anti-corrosive characteristics. Resistant to the effects of perspiration and humidity, they last significantly longer than their nickel counterparts and produce ultimate volume and sustain.
Nickel-Plated Steel - the "hot" strings preferred by many rock guitarists. The highly magnetic characteristics produce a brighter sound with more "punch" than pure nickel-wound strings.
Pure Nickel - can be used on electric as well as acoustic guitars. Bright sounding, smooth feeling string often preferred for rhythm or jazz. The sound is slightly darker, rounder and fuller than nickel-plated strings.
Flat-wound - a ribbon-like flat wrap is used to smooth out the string and eliminate finger noise. This process reduces the brilliance of the sound leaving a more mellow tone and easier fingering.
While I don't think string mfgs go into detail about composition of their strings, there is a whole world of info about the elements that comprise all sorts of stainless steels. And just a click or two away. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 19 Mar 2005 4:49 pm
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Well, here's what little I know. Stainless steel is made stainless (rust-resistant, really) by adding chromium. Many other metals are added to make specific alloys. Some rust more than others, others not at all. Some sre very malleable, others aren't. Most varieties are pretty "tough".
"Stainless steel" strings have a core of music wire, it's only the windings that are stainless steel.
There are both magnetic and non-magnetic stainless steels.
The crystaline structure of some stainless steels can make them difficult to polish.
Using non-magnetic stainless steel for the wrappings would affect the sound, but you would still get sound due to the core of regular steel. I've used bronze-wound strings on an electric guitar, and they work pretty good.
Oh yeah, chrome is pretty hard.
So is nickel, but nickel will tarnish.
"Silvered" strings? Never heard of 'em. Silver is very soft, and it does polish well. Maybe they silver-plate strings to make them smoother? Nah. Silver tarnishes too darn easy. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 19 Mar 2005 4:52 pm
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I seem to recall that some of the old "Silk & Steel" strings designed for acoustic guitar were "silvered".
Lee, from South Texas |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2005 5:51 pm
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| Quote: |
| Wouldn't Stainless steel strings being non magnetic or nickel for that matter be a lot less desireable for electric guitars? |
The stainless steel windings are generally martensitic/400 series stainless steel ... which is ferromagnetic.
Nickel is ferromagnetic.
The Nickel wound strings ... as stated above ... are either Nickel plated steel ... or "Pure Nickel".
The "Pure Nickel" isn't really 100% nickel ... its a nickel alloy ... which one ... ????
I've only heard of "Silvered Steel Strings" associated with acoustic guitars and b@njos ...
| Quote: |
| In combinations of alloys for string windings, is there cathodic interaction between some |
I'm not sure what you mean by "Cathodic Interactions" ... if you are referring to rust protection ...
Plain strings are "Tinned" carbon (plain) steel.
Tinning usually refers to a "Hot Dipping" process ... where the metal is literally dipped or run thru vats of molten tin.
Electroplating tin is also employed in industry ... but I'd bet most music wire is hot dipped.
As far as "Cathodic Protection" ... if you look at the Mapes site ... you will see Tin/Zinc coated music wire along with just Tin coated music wire ...
Zinc is a "sacrificial" metal ... it is more readily oxidized than iron ... therefore it protects or at least delays the oxidation of the steel ... "Galvanizing".
Just tryin' to help.
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 19 March 2005 at 06:42 PM.] |
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Brendan Mitchell
From:
Melbourne Australia
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Posted 19 Mar 2005 8:50 pm
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I remember Bobbe Seymour sayin something like don't use a stainless bar on steel strings or visa versa.I didn't take that much notice as it didn't aply to me.
Brendan |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Mar 2005 3:58 am
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Thanks all and Rick. To answer a couple questions, I believe GHS "Boomers" are advertized as "silvered" I couldn't figure that one out. "Boomers" for me went dead in a couple days.
Also chrome being "hard". I think there are many alloys but in general to me if it is easy to polish, it is soft.
The "thin dense chrome" of the Armaloy Corp, that does Bullseye Bars in a slightly different "coating" is probably metalurgically different than what's stuck on he copper layer on my harley parts OR on the copper layer that's glued to aluminum to keep it from boiling up aluminum oxide when the two contact each other. (To my knowledge, and this is more guitar parts than strings nobody has found a way to chrome bare aluminum.)
I asked about cathodic reaction between metals such as strings on aluminum parts, or maybe bronze against other metals.
It was a stupid question about the magnetic properties of stainless, as I had forgotten, and it just slipped out. Don't nobody overestimate me... (the dots are where I say they are)
I just have noticed that I am just above the common boob that can't feel the difference on some stainless strings under my stock Sho~Bud or my other stainless bar. Namely, the GHSes I've been using.
I used to use half round nickel GHSes, but I mecame more demanding of sustain, and brighter tone over the last few years. Probably from losing my high end hearing.
I've been using SIT "Silencers" on my C neck, and GHS SSes on the E9, and there's a WORLD of difference. The C6es arent dead by any means, but much less bitey. ( is that a word).
I'll check into the metalurgy sites, and thank you Rick, Donny, and others. I'l peruse it and digest it as I can. Been a long week and weekend.
THanks All.
More info is welcome, for sure.
EJL |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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John Daugherty
From:
Rolla, Missouri, USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2005 10:31 am
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| The detailed metallurgical qualities of strings doesn't have to be known. If you have tried them, they sound good over a long period of time and are not prone to break ........ DUH. Jagwire stainless works for me. |
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jim milewski
From:
stowe, vermont
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Posted 20 Mar 2005 3:35 pm
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| thanks Eric for the post and Rick for explaining chroming, very informative and Rick explained so even I could understand, a little off subject but.... are cylinders (mostly two stroke) chromed for the low asperites reducing friction or the hardness or both |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 20 Mar 2005 4:10 pm
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A couple more things...
| Quote: |
| In combinations of alloys for string windings, is there cathodic interaction...? |
Very little, actually. Usually there has to be moisture present for such reactions. Only in areas of high continuous humidity (>60%) would you see a problem.
Also, I'm told that polishing metal (in the normal sense) isn't so much "removal" of material as it is "smearing" of material from the high spots into the low ones. |
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