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Topic: Getting a pedal steel in Europe vs. US import |
Tuukka Ojala
From:
Finland
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Posted 14 Feb 2017 10:01 am |
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Greetings everyone!
Here's yet another one whose heart is set on learning the pedal steel. I've been looking at possible candidates for my first instrument, and given my needs and location I've narrowed my choices down to a brand new Stage One or an used pro model from a reputable dealer. Steels are few and far between up here so I'd have to buy sight unseen.
I see there are many steel guitar dealers in Europe, and some even stock the Stage One. However, the European prices seem to be significantly higher compared to what the same instrument would cost in the US, even with the addition of customs taxes and the like.
So: Could there be considerable hassles when importing a pedal steel from the US, or would the EU dealer premium be worth it? Thanks in advance for any info you could give me. |
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Steven Husting
From:
Germany
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Posted 14 Feb 2017 10:34 am
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Hi -
A steel is heavy, so you will have significant shipping costs. Then you will have heavy import duties, whatever they are in Finnland. In Germany I count on 20% duties plus shipping - plus the hassles and risks of shipping a heavy piece of gear overseas. So figure the difference between US and Finnish prices that way - shipping + duties + whatever peace of mind is worth to you. Or just bring it with you next time you come back from the US
You might want to take a look at WBS from Germany
Steven |
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Tuukka Ojala
From:
Finland
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Posted 14 Feb 2017 12:54 pm
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| Steven Husting wrote: |
| You might want to take a look at WBS from Germany |
Thanks for the suggestion! I had a quick look at their products and their "basic" model seems very similarly specked to the Stage One. They didn't explicitly mention whether you can change the copedents or not but that's not a dealbreaker for me to begin with. Seems like a very viable contender. |
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Dennis Lee
From:
Forest Grove, Oregon, USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2017 2:14 pm Stage One
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Hello Brother Steeler!
It never fails to amaze me how the pedal steel has affected so many and changed the world of music. Glad you were bitten by the bug!
There has been a lot of favorable talk about the Stage One, since it is associated with the Zum name. Don't know how you could go wrong with getting one as your first steel. It may satisfy that need for the steel for many years. Let us all know what you decide and how your progress is coming along.
Your friend,
Dennis |
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Mike Mantey
From:
Eastern Colorado, USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2017 3:06 pm We export steels
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| We export on the average of 1-2 per month Worldwide. We have never had an issue. I can not say for sure what each customer had to pay in taxes and duties, but on average a steel can be sent most places for around $400 shipping. Keep in mind when you choose, that you will be far away from the manufacturer, so get something with a good reputation, same with a used guitar. That's my best advise. |
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Malcolm McMaster
From:
Beith Ayrshire Scotland
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Posted 14 Feb 2017 3:13 pm
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Could I suggest you talk to Ted Nesbitt of Rainbow Music Carrickfergus Northern Ireland,Ted is probably the best known seller of steels in U.K. and Europe, he his a great guy to deal with and has supplied steels to many well known names. If Ted has something suitable you can always get a cheap flight ( EasyJet ? ) and pick it up.
_________________
MSA Millenium SD10, GK MB200, Sica 12inch cab, Joyo American Sound Pedal/ Jay Ganz Straight Ahead amp, Telonics 15inch in Peavey cab, Digitech RP150, Peterson tuner.Hilton volume pedal.Scott Dixon seat and guitar flight case. |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 14 Feb 2017 4:08 pm Get a cheap ticket
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Hi Malcolm,
Order your guitar,
Get a cheap ticket as they are available from time to time.
Make out a fake receipt as if it was a used instrument for about 1/4 the value to keep the tax down.
I doubt any customs agent anywhere knows what a steel guitar is worth.
Next time vote for a party that promises to lower taxes.
Good luck.
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 14 Feb 2017 6:15 pm
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Check these out too in your neck of the woods
http://www.wbssteelguitars.com/
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Steven Husting
From:
Germany
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Posted 14 Feb 2017 11:01 pm Re: Get a cheap ticket
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| Andy De Paule wrote: |
Hi Malcolm,
Make out a fake receipt as if it was a used instrument for about 1/4 the value to keep the tax down.
I doubt any customs agent anywhere knows what a steel guitar is worth.
Next time vote for a party that promises to lower taxes.
Good luck.
Andy |
Don't do this - it is illegal. If they catch you they've got you for intent. Maybe it works, maybe not. You'd be better off getting caught with NO documentation than falsified.
Customs officials are not stupid. They see hundreds of things every day. They may not know details about steel guitars but they know what is valuable and can check market value quickly.
I brought my steel in on a flight - and it was an old Emmons student model, not valuable at all - through Frankfurt and they lost no time picking me out of a horde going though and giving me a very hard time about the guitar. It's not something I want to do again.
If I were to do it again I would just buy a WBS - I would have a new guitar with service nearby and it will be many years before the standard 3+4 copedant starts to feel restrictive - if it ever does. Instead I have an old, cranky, difficult-to-play guitar with no one to service it - but it does sound very good, which makes it worth it.
A Stage One is $1200, I think. It's a light guitar, so let's say it only costs $300 to ship. Finnish VAT is 24%, so that's another $290 - totaling about $1800 without any additional fees. And at least in Germany, I have to take off work to go to customs - so I always have to factor the loss of half a day vacation, too.
Steven |
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Martin Abend
From:
Berlin, Germany
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Posted 15 Feb 2017 4:06 am
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Tuukka,
I've played a WBS Basic for years and it's a great guitar with a great sound (pull-release mechanism). Wolfgang, the manufacturer, is a great guy, easy to deal with and always there to help. I had a couple of special requests for the guitar (e.g. a gerless tuner) and he delivered without problem. Just my 0.2$ |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 15 Feb 2017 4:22 am
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Tuukka,
If you go to the British Steelies website there are often steels for sale and although shipping to Finland wouldn't be cheap, since we are both members of the EU (well, for a couple of years more we are) there would be no customs charges to worry about.
There is a chap on there called John Davis who buys steels, fixes them up and sells them on. His prices are very reasonable and you can be sure that the guitar will be in tip top condition. I bought a Sho~Bud from him and it is a great guitar.
I know he has sold guitars all over Europe so he won't have a problem shipping to you. |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 15 Feb 2017 5:23 am
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One more vote for Ted Nesbitt, great to deal with.
You can also try the Scandinavian Steel Guitar Forum:
http://steelgitarr.forum24.se/
Become a member (no cost) and place a "Want to buy" ad if there's nothing available at the moment. Quite a few Finnish steelers are members already.
Or just get in touch with Finnish steel ace Peter Nylund, not only a great player but also a helpful gentleman who often has a steel or two for sale – or could point you in the right direction. |
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Tuukka Ojala
From:
Finland
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Posted 15 Feb 2017 10:09 am
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Wow, thanks everyone for these great answers! Wasn't expecting there to be this many.
| Mike Mantey wrote: |
| [...] on average a steel can be sent most places for around $400 shipping. |
Thanks. This is good to know.
| Mike Mantey wrote: |
| Keep in mind when you choose, that you will be far away from the manufacturer, so get something with a good reputation, same with a used guitar. |
That's why I'm not planning to buy a used guitar from the States. Servicing will be a potential nightmare as it is.
| Malcolm McMaster wrote: |
| Could I suggest you talk to Ted Nesbitt of Rainbow Music Carrickfergus Northern Ireland,Ted is probably the best known seller of steels in U.K. and Europe, he his a great guy to deal with and has supplied steels to many well known names. |
You're certainly not the first to give me that recommendation. I wasn't sure whether any of the British dealers were keen to do business outside the UK, but I'll try and ask.
| Martin Abend wrote: |
| I've played a WBS Basic for years and it's a great guitar with a great sound (pull-release mechanism). |
I'm definitely leaning towards the WBS if I was to buy a brand new instrument. I'm just yet to find a clip of either their basic or custom model that I would really like. For some reason there aren't that many quality recordings of those guitars out there, only more or less mediocre-sounding camcorder clips which don't do justice to a fine guitar. I can't go and check one out in person, let alone play one, so the only thing that would make me buy one would be some good recordings. I know there are many folks in this forum who love their WBS's but these things are so subjective.
| Jeff Mead wrote: |
| There is a chap on there [the British Steelies website] called John Davis who buys steels, fixes them up and sells them on. His prices are very reasonable and you can be sure that the guitar will be in tip top condition. I bought a Sho~Bud from him and it is a great guitar. |
Another very good suggestion, thanks! I did actually come across that website in my search of European steel dealers but wasn't sure whether anyone there would ship to me.
| Per Berner wrote: |
You can also try the Scandinavian Steel Guitar Forum:
http://steelgitarr.forum24.se/
Become a member (no cost) and place a "Want to buy" ad if there's nothing available at the moment. Quite a few Finnish steelers are members already. |
I had a quick look through that forum a couple of days ago. At least then there were no steels for sale and the whole place didn't seem all that active, but I guess it's only natural because it's such a small community even with all the nordic countries combined. I'll keep looking. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2017 12:07 pm
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All the advice here is really good.
I bet WBS is the least expensive option to get a nice new instrument to Finland. The build quality looks excellent; you can't go wrong with German engineering.
There are lots of recordings of Johan Jansen playing his WBS on YouTube. He's a forum member here, so you can message him with questions and he can point you to more recordings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrlOPyHaey0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cjtETl_Nnk
I think buying a used instrument is also fine, as long as it has been checked out by a known seller, like Nesbitt or Davis. That would probably be the least expensive way to go, and you still end up with a professional instrument. |
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Tuukka Ojala
From:
Finland
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Posted 15 Feb 2017 12:51 pm
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| Tucker Jackson wrote: |
| There are lots of recordings of Johan Jansen playing his WBS on YouTube. He's a forum member here, so you can message him with questions and he can point you to more recordings. |
Yeah, his sound is phenomenal. However, his guitar has a BL705 pickup (whatever that is) where as the regular models have a WBS single coil. I'd like to hear a good recording of that configuration just to be sure, although I know there's a lot more into the tone of a (steel) guitar than just the pickup. |
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Malcolm McMaster
From:
Beith Ayrshire Scotland
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Posted 15 Feb 2017 2:30 pm
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Tuukka, mean't to add that Ted Nesbitt is a Mullen agent, but can get you any make or model you like.
_________________
MSA Millenium SD10, GK MB200, Sica 12inch cab, Joyo American Sound Pedal/ Jay Ganz Straight Ahead amp, Telonics 15inch in Peavey cab, Digitech RP150, Peterson tuner.Hilton volume pedal.Scott Dixon seat and guitar flight case. |
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Oliver Samland
From:
Hamburg, Germany
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Posted 16 Feb 2017 3:26 am
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| Tuukka, I've send you a pm. |
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Peter Nylund
From:
Finland
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Posted 17 Feb 2017 11:45 am
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Mr Berner, thank You for the kind words. Unfortunately I'm next to naked with only one pedal steel at the moment.
Tuukka, I would go for a WBS. Missäpäin Suomea olet?
_________________
I know my playing is a bit pitchy, but at least my tone sucks |
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Tuukka Ojala
From:
Finland
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Posted 17 Feb 2017 12:39 pm
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| Peter Nylund wrote: |
| Tuukka, I would go for a WBS. |
Good to hear that. I've yet to hear a single bad thing about them.
| Peter Nylund wrote: |
| Missäpäin Suomea olet? |
Tampereella asun. |
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Jan Münther
From:
Germany
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Posted 21 Feb 2017 5:13 am WBS Basic
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Hello Tuukka,
let me chime in here.
A few months back I faced the exact same question you currently do, and I decided to go with the WBS Basic.
Not a single second did I regret this. The instrument is manufactured like a Swiss timepiece and sounds absolutely glorious. The pickups are developed by Harry Häussel, who is an absolute class A authority on pickups here in Germany.
Seriously, I strongly doubt that within Europe you can get more steel guitar for your money if you want to stay under like 2k EUR. I absolutely love mine.
Wolfgang's also very reactive and a good guy to deal with.
So, strong endorsement for WBS from my side here!
Cheers,
Jan |
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Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
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Posted 17 Apr 2017 6:05 am
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Hi I recommend the WBS, all models!
I play the Ultimate with BL 705's in it, because I am so used to them, they cut through every mix in the studio. Hausels are very good too, I just prefer the other color....
You can't go wrong with a WBS! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 17 Apr 2017 6:45 am
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The Basic (and the Stage One) with its pull-release changer has one nice advantage and two disadvantages, both of them minor.
Advantage: TONE. The larger solid finger just makes it sound better.
Disadvantage 1: any string that both raises and lowers will find a LOT of slack in the raises, since the raising pull rod has to allow space for the lower to lower. Minor disadvantage, and one of the "Holy Grail" guitars (push-pull Emmons) has this same feature. Doesn't stop thousands of people from playing them.
Disadvantage 2: you cannot combine the effects of a raise and lower at the same time (called 'splits'). Again, thousands of people play the push-pull without this, and any student is a couple years away from even missing this feature.
"705, whatever that is". It's a great sounding humbucking pickup, with two coils working at once. This eliminates the 50 cycle hum that you can get in some poorly shielded /poorly wired buildings, where the wiring gives off interference. The 705 is one of the best sounding humbuckers, but the stock single coil will sound great unless you are in a building with humming wiring (in which case, you can usually solve the hum by turning the guitar or teaching the house the words)
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
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Hans Holzherr
From:
Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland
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Posted 18 Apr 2017 3:05 am
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Another vote here for the WBS Basic (I hope Peter Schild doesn't read this  ). Some years ago I set one up for a friend, and playability and sound was better than expected. |
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Tuukka Ojala
From:
Finland
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Posted 18 Apr 2017 3:16 am
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Thanks once again for the info! I did actually find some really good clips of WBS's. If anything, they taught me that the tone of a steel really comes down to the player much more so than to the instrument. A telecaster sounds like a telecaster no matter who's playing one, but it's as if the player really makes a steel sound like the way it does, not so much the construction or the pickup. I wanted to hear someone make a WBS sound like the tone I'm hearing in my head when I think of a good steel, and I know in the right hands it can deliver just that in spades. Now, whether mine will ever be capable enough is completely another matter, but at least I know better than to blame my instrument. 
With guitars I tend to prefer the clarity and snappiness of single coils. I can't really say what my preference would be with steels; I guess I just have to experiment. Sadly the wiring in this place is awful but it's not totably unbearable.
The info about the pull-release changer was also really helpful. All those different changer types got me nicely confused at first but reading the forum for a while sorted them all out. |
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