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Topic: Changer & Rod questions |
Don Christy
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 7:39 pm
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I have some pictures of my changer showing my rod set-up for the 10 strings on my steel.I also have some pictures of my rods going from my changer to the bell cranks for the pedals, knee levers and strings.
I want to know if some of you steel players can tell me if my rod locations are correct on my changer for each string location on the changer.
As you are looking at the changer rod adjustment in the pictures, #1 string is on your right and #10 is on your left. Does anyone have a diagram on how to set-up the rods for the changer and how they are to be connected to the pedals and knee levers?
I'm starting over on my Mullen and I could use some help on how some of you guy's have your steel set-up.If you have pictures, please upload them and show your set-up. Thank you!
Last edited by Don Christy on 5 Apr 2012 6:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Lane Gray
From: Topeka, KS
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 7:47 pm
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What you're after is called a "rodding chart"
I will say your 6th string B pedal, which you have in the 3rd hole, should be in #1, unless you use a wound 6th.
EDIT: Here's one I found: www.steelguitar.com/roddingS12.html
It's not perfect, but it gives you something _________________ 2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Don Christy
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 8:04 pm
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By the way, there is a lot of slop or play where the pedal rod hook connects to the bell-crank. I can move it almost 3/16 inches up and down.
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Lane Gray
From: Topeka, KS
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 8:07 pm
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Right. but that play should disappear when you turn it over _________________ 2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Don Christy
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 8:28 pm
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Lane, thanks for your help. I will look for some more rodding charts and study them some more to make sure everything lines up.
If you have some pictures of your steel underside and changer, please put them on my post. Thank you! |
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Don Christy
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Posted 5 Apr 2012 6:58 am
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I found a nice website that beginners might like to use for the tuning and rod locations. The website had lots of details and diagrams for the set-up of a pedal steel guitar. These diagrams really help if you are a beginner.
Here is the link ......
http://williamsguitarcompany.com/manual.html |
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Henry Matthews
From: Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2012 10:36 am
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Maybe just camera angle or just me but something don't look right about that changer, especially the third string pull. It looks like it is binding or maybe rubbing with the lower part of changer and sorta inset. My Mullen doesn't look like that. _________________ Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Georg Sørtun
From: Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 5 Apr 2012 10:57 am
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Clearly doesn't look right no matter the PSG brand...
If that picture of changer-end with nylon tuners shows present "no pedals activated" adjustment, it looks like all free-play, and then some (quite a bit), is used up. If so "open position" raises hang on the pull-rods, which they should not. |
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Mickey Adams
From: Bandera Texas
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Posted 5 Apr 2012 11:54 am
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When the guitar left my shop...It was adjusted correctly, and was "all that it can be"...The Standard Mullen Rodding chart was used, and the stops were set accordingly. as this guitar does not have a split changer, its really fairly simple....And yes Don, your RODS are in the right locations. How its been changed since I brought it to you I don't know...
so Don, are you changing the copedent?....what is it that you are trying to improve upon? _________________ ARTIST RELATIONS: MSA GUITARS
2017 MSA LEGEND XL D10, S10, Studio Pro S12 EXE9
Mullen G2, Rittenberry S10, Infinity D10, Zumsteel 8+9
Anderson, Buscarino, Fender, Roman Guitars, Sarno Octal, Revelation Preamps, BJS BARS, Lots of Blackface Fenders! |
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Don Christy
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Posted 5 Apr 2012 1:52 pm
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Hey Mickey! I was cleaning the Mullen and notice it sometimes hangs up on a pedal C and the rods were sticking a little. So I took the legs off and clean and oiled the parts lightly and checked the changer.
I found a spring had come loose and was hanging on barley. It might have been # 8 finger. I will check rods before put it back togather. I have not touched any adjusts if you are worried about that. Just doing regular maintenance for now, like clean, oil lightly, replace rubber feet on legs, new strings ect. |
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Don Christy
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Posted 5 Apr 2012 1:57 pm
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Henry and George , can you post pictures of your changer so I can view it and compare. Maybe the under side of your steel so I can view your rods and bell cranks in position?
It will help me learn too! |
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Georg Sørtun
From: Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 5 Apr 2012 3:55 pm
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May not help you much, as it's a different PSG brand with different copedent (and maybe even different string-gauges) than yours, but anyway...
The picture does at least show that, with no pedals/levers activated, all raise/lower scissors are even across and resting against the stop-plate at the bottom.
You can't see the actual free-play between nylon-nuts and their respective scissors in my picture, but the main thing is that none of the nuts touch its scissor in this well-tuned PSG with no pedals/levers activated.
The raise-scissors look uneven in your picture and it appears as if some scissors are not resting against the stop-plate. Either there are no strings on your PSG - put on strings and tune them up before attempting to adjust or rearrange anything related to pedal/lever pulls. Or, some of those nylon-nuts are turned too far in on their pull-rods and the scissors are hanging on them - must be corrected. |
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Lane Gray
From: Topeka, KS
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Posted 5 Apr 2012 5:40 pm
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I guess this is a question for Mickey:
Does Mullen use a gear-down on the B pedal, or how do you get 6&3 balanced with both on the third hole?
After rerodding the MSA I'm selling (I had a mother of a time timing the B pedal), I'm really curious about that. _________________ 2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Henry Matthews
From: Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2012 9:22 pm
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Lane, mine balanced out just using different holes on bell crank. When I take a guilar apart to change setups or something, I always put the main pulls in middle holes and lowers in bottom holes on the changer. Most of the time they will balance out but sometime I do have to change holes in changer. I dont like to feel a knotch in my pedals from other string pulling up so try to get them to bottom out and -also start pulling together. _________________ Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Lane Gray
From: Topeka, KS
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Posted 5 Apr 2012 9:45 pm
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I wrote out, then lost, a rodding chart of how the MSA was. I know in order to balance the B pedal, I had 3A1 and 6D2, the letters being bellcranks and numbers being changer. If it hadn't balanced there, I'd have either had to gear down the third or gear up the sixth.
I don't mind feeling that hitch, my first two guitars were push-pull and pull-release. But for a sale guitar, that's too old-school. They gotta balance or it doesn't feel right _________________ 2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Henry Matthews
From: Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2012 9:03 am
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Lane, I was wrong, I put pulls in bottom hole instead of middle. Don, here are a few pics of changer and underside that will maybe help. Hard to get a good pic of changer, like trying to take a picture in a mirror. I might that this is Day setup so you can just reverse setting gor Emmons.---Henry
_________________ Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Carol Teston
From: South Carolina, USA
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Posted 7 Apr 2012 3:41 pm Changer End Sho Bud Standard Set Up 10 String
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DOES ANYBODY HAVE A PICTURE OF THE CHANGER END I HAVE JUST MADE SOME CHANGES AND WANT TO BE SURE I HAVE PLACED THE RODS INTO THE CORRECT HOLES
I HAVE THE STANDARD SHO BUD FROM THE FACTORY SET UP OR AT LEAST TRYING TO GET BACK TO THAT SET UP
THANKS FELLOW STEELERS, CAROL |
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Don Christy
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Posted 8 Apr 2012 7:15 am
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Henry, do you like the Day set-up better than the regular E9th set-up? What did you do different for this set-up?
I heard the Day set-up is better if a person has a handicap, like a foot or knee problem. Are the pedals reverse..like C.B.A instead of A.B.C?
When I change out my pick-up, instead of soldering the wires again, what kind of parts do I need to make a plug-in so I can eliminate this soldering everytime?
Does anyone have pictures of their guitar with this set-up in detail and close-ups?
Nice pictures guy's and it helps to see if my guitar is in range, like the changer and bellcranks. |
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Lane Gray
From: Topeka, KS
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Posted 8 Apr 2012 7:38 am
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Don, are you running a single or double neck?
If double, I'd solder whatever kind of connectors the neck selector switch takes: you'll have to desolder them, of course.
If you have a single without volume and tone knobs, the same, but to the output jack.
If you have volume and/or tone knobs, I'd do likewise, but mark them so that you don't have to remember what gets plugged in to what. _________________ 2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Henry Matthews
From: Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 8 Apr 2012 10:02 am
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Don, yes, I like the Day setup better and there is about a thousand threads on the Day vs Emmons. It just seemed more natural to me when I first started playing. The Day is a reverse Emmons with the a,b, and c pedals and also the E knee levers. Usually, the right knee setup is the same, that is if you raise and lower E's on your left knee. _________________ Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Charley Bond
From: Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2017 4:40 pm the Day Setup versus the Emmons Setup
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The Jimmy Day setup is ergonomically better. Ask yourself, which way does your ankle bend or roll the most, without dislocating your knee..? My ankle rolls over to the outside very easy, while the inward roll is limited & difficult at best.
In the beginning Shot, Jimmy & Budd Isaacs went the outside way, but Buddy Emmons wasn't having it, he wasn't going to play like Jimmy Day. The rest is history.
That story was related to me via David Jackson, Shot Jackson's son.
In MEMORIAM, it started out like this. The 1st pedal was a flat stick, with cord tied to one end & strung through a hole in the keyhead, where the hook on the other end of the string was placed over the string. You pushed the stick down with your foot & changed the pitch of that string. The second pedal was added at the pickin' end. The cord was strung next to the pickup. The addition of the 3rd pedal was when difficult times came along & required extreme coordination to activate the pedal correctly.
I'm just glad those guys had to go through the learning curve & not me. _________________ Steel Guitar players are members of a Special Family |
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Tony Glassman
From: The Great Northwest
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Posted 1 Jun 2017 7:45 pm
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I disagree that there is an ergonomic advantage to either the Emmons or Day set-ups for the normal ankle. Using the A and B pedals individually and together require both ankle inversion and eversion whichever way they are configured. Both work equally well and each arrangement has its devotees.
I doubt that anyone can present an anatomical explanation as to why either Buddy Emmons or John Hughey was doing it wrong. |
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Henry Matthews
From: Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2017 8:53 pm
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Tony Glassman wrote: |
I disagree that there is an ergonomic advantage to either the Emmons or Day set-ups for the normal ankle. Using the A and B pedals individually and together require both ankle inversion and eversion whichever way they are configured. Both work equally well and each arrangement has its devotees.
I doubt that anyone can present an anatomical explanation as to why either Buddy Emmons or John Hughey was doing it wrong. |
I don't disagree with you Tony but I do think the Day setup is easier, not so much as to which way the ankles bends but more so with the basic positions like 7ths out of a closed chord that everything moves in the same direction. The bar, your knees and the pedals. I started playing Emmons and played that way for about a year and set down at a Day guitar and everything fit better so had mine changed over and have played that way for 30 years. I can still play Emmons set up but feels awkward now. I really don't see any advantage to either other than the movements but again, there's really no advantage to that either, just personal preference. By the way, John Huey played Day setup but maybe that's what you meant. _________________ Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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John Roche
From: England
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Posted 2 Jun 2017 2:54 am
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I've had the same problem with my MSA Legend, I've been trying to get it back to factory setup, finding information on the rodding setup was very difficult.
MSA don't have a rodding chart, in my opinion every steel should come with its own chart.
Yes players like to set their
pedals and knee lever's to suit themselves, but if they get it wrong and not noted where the rod were you stuck...
So come on steel manufacturers make a rodding chart, it don't take long to put one together.
The best on I've seen is Williams, they do a superb job.
I did get some help from msa but who wants to be emailing company every time there's a problem like the one above... |
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Jack Stoner
From: Kansas City, MO
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Posted 2 Jun 2017 4:43 am
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The accepted splitting of the pedals, by many, is what Buddy Emmons wrote that he did it, and others followed. His version is Jimmy Day was on the road and heard Emmons had split the pedals but didn't know how he did it and it ended up opposite. |
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