Tuning problem

Bill Erb · Posted 6 Mar 2005 5:53 pm

I was laying some pedal steel tracks for a friend today. They already had the lead, vocal and rythum tracks down. They said they was tunned 440. We was playing some minors which sounded out of tune. I had my steel tuned to 442. I used the Jeff Newman tuning chart. I have a korg tunner. I have done this a lot of times in the past and have always been in tune. I finally had one of them play the cord slowly and I tuned the steel from the guitar note for note. I totally do not understand what went wrong. The notes sounded like to cats fighting. Once I finally got in tune with them I was ok. Has any one else had this problem and how did you solve the problem. If the rest of them was in tune perfect 440 would a Peterson VS-II tuner solve my problem? Any and all wisdom is welcome.
Thanks for any help.

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BILL ERB

[This message was edited by BILL on 06 March 2005 at 05:55 PM.]

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Bill,
I'm a piano tuner, have done much much concert work. I use a 20 year old Korg quartz-lock battery powered tuner (for starting pitch). It works perfectly.
I don't think you need anything else.
Charlie

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

The Jeff Newmann tuning chart will put your own guitar up to 28 cents out of changes like your f lever and your open B strings. My ear can stand about 8 cents, though I just got done playing a ProIII into the ground after 26 years that often had 15 give or take if I didn't step quickly on my B pedal.

Tuning drastically other than the instruments you play with is a difficult proposition, even if it's the most pleasing to your ear. Averages, and dominance figure in as well, aside from vibrato and fluidic passing chords.

If you must tune so, my suggestion would be to use a less expensive tuner and make note of which strings and changes you wish to change to your ear's liking, and if some like the Flever, Open B combinations are "problematic", then omit them from your "bag".

It's only as complex as you make it.

Some people want to throw out the 12 note system, and believe that it doesn't even exist, while playing with instruments that tune using it exclusively.

Bless their hearts.

EJL

John Daugherty · From: Rolla, Missouri, USA

Throw the chart away and tune straight up 440. If that sounds out of tune with some pedal combinations, touch it up by ear.
The chart supposedly compensates for cabinet drop which varies from guitar to guitar. I can't be in tune with the band if I use that chart.

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

I'm with you John!.. Tune your E's up to 440, tune the rest of the strings to the E's,get your stops in and be done with it...Geez what wil cabinet drop be on a decent guitar.. maybe 4-5 cents??.. I don't think many folks can even hear that small a pitch change..bob

[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 07 March 2005 at 05:33 AM.]

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

Since that sadist Johann Sebastian Bach endorsed the even-tempered tuning system by writing "The Well-Tempered Clavier" between 1722 and 1740, no Western music has ever actually been in tune since then, madness is on the rise, kids today are no damn good & it's really not a very good idea to ask steel guitarists how to tune up....

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

(HEHeeehehehehehe..)

EJL

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Tune however you want to tune. No matter how you choose to tune, just be sure to PLAY in tune. I personally can't make straight up thirds work, so I flat them 4-8 cents and my F's end up about 12 cents flat and it works with all instruments I play with.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

How you train your ears is much more important than how you tune your guitar. Practicing along to drones has improved my intonation 100%. You can buy all the tuners in the world and tune your guitar 50 different ways. Nothing will help if your ears aren't happening. Click on the blue thing under my name to check out a thread about it if you want.

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Bob
intonation help

John Daugherty · From: Rolla, Missouri, USA

Larry Bell..... you got it. With the E9th tuning,tune the 3rd and 6th strings a wee bit flat. With the pedals down tune them at 440. (Don't ask me to define "wee bit"). A "wee bit" may be equal to about 3 cents.
That's my 3 cents worth.

David Doggett · Posted 7 Mar 2005 1:58 pm

Bill, since you said you have used the Newman tuning and your Korg meeter without problems before, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming your ears are fine, your meter is fine, the Newman system works okay for you, and this didn't happen just because you were hearing yourself recorded for the first time. What that leaves is a big question as to whether the tracks you were playing to were really 440. Once you got in tune with the tracks, you should have rechecked your tuner to see where you were. That's the only way to answer these kinds of questions. If they really were 440, then you may have discovered a new tuning chart that works better for you than the Newman one. But chances are that they were not really 440. Maybe one guy tuned to a meter, but did it poorly, or drifted or adjusted, then another guy tuned to him, etc. Many times I have tuned to someone who was supposedly tuned 440, only to check my meter and discover that was not true. One of my groups with a harmonica player was having trouble getting in tune. I discovered all his harps are tuned to 442 (8 cents sharp) - don't know why. I told them to forget the meters and tune to an E or A harp. Things improved greatly.

John Steele · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

Eric, I'm with ya, man.

Bill sez:

quote:

We was playing some minors which sounded out of tune.

John D sez:

quote:

With the E9th tuning,tune the 3rd and 6th strings a wee bit flat.

Hmm. So, Bill, were they a wee bit flat ?

-John

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www.ottawajazz.com

Bill Erb · Posted 7 Mar 2005 2:30 pm

Interesting comments. I think the guitar on the tracts was off a little and I don't mean just flat or sharp. I think some of the guitars strings was just a little out of tune. If it was just a little high or a little flat that would have made it easy. The other problem everyone was in somewhat of a hurry. The more I rushed the worse it sounded. I got up and walked away from it for a little while. My ears was so screwed up that nothing sounded right. When I set back down I was able to tune in with them and it sounded good. I do know from past experence that once I start messing with the steel pedals with other people around that I am in trouble. If it is at least somewhat quiet I have always been able to straighten it out without a problem. I appreciate everyones input. This is the first time that I felt that I did not have control of the steel. I could not believe that I could not get that steel in tune with the rest of them.

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BILL ERB

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

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