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Topic: New Williams 12 String Keyless - Extended E9th (Updated) |
Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2016 5:34 am |
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Here's a review of my new Williams 12 string keyless extended E9th tuning guitar. Lot's of detailed pictures, sound files, a complete song and some helpful links are included. Thanks for Bill Rudolph for a fine guitar and ahead of time delivery!
Read the review!
Updated with Silkyn tube amp samples.
Last edited by Greg Cutshaw on 22 Oct 2016 8:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Dwight Lewis
From:
Huntsville, Alabama
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Posted 12 Oct 2016 7:08 am S12 Williams
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Just absolutely magnificent. As expected of the Williams quality. The sound bites are as a steel guitar should be. Very articulate and clean, great separation..... What scale are you using, 24.5 or 25"?
Dwight
_________________
Dekley 7p4k(PRS-10C), BMI S12 5p5kn |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2016 8:51 am
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24.5" scale.
The legend and this are both top shelf guitars. I prefer the keyless though because of the lighter and especially more compact body. Note that locating the traditional 1,2,3 pedals (and adding a "0" pedal) more towards the center of the guitar does introduce more cabinet drop but that can be tempered out and reduced by not mashing so hard on the pedals. Not really a concern but just an observation. Getting about 3.5 cents drop on the worst string with pedals 2 and 3 engaged.
My LKV used with pedal 2 allows me to get full sounding E13b5 and E13b9 chords with the b5 and b9 on the bottom. I use this a lot. Also found that I use the 0 pedal a lot for Mooney sounds and for some of the Norm Hamlet type riffs. Very versatile sounds. |
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Brad Malone
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 15 Oct 2016 11:38 am Great choice
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| Greg, Listened to your clips and really like the range of your new steel..the low tones you get on your 12 are not possible on the single neck tens...the biggest complaint I hear from people who are not steel guitarists is that they do not care for the high pitch of the E9th 10 string tuning. Listen to "Bert Rivera" on Utube play the standards like Perdido, Stompin at the Savoy, Take the A train, Out of Nowhere, Canadian Sunset, Tenderly and the such...those are the Standards that never die and he plays them on the lower neck...The E9th is great for backing up singers but the lower tuning is better for the standards IMHO..Greg, you got it all on that 12 stringer. Now there are a lot of people who say they prefer the double neck tens because of string separation and tone but your steel sounds good to me. |
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Paul Stauskas
From:
DFW, TX
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Posted 15 Oct 2016 3:33 pm
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Wow, beautiful guitar and great sound clips Greg!
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My site |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2016 11:59 am
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I updated my Williams Keyless page with some Fender Steel King samples. See "Fender Steel King Sound Samples":
http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Williams%2012%20String%20Keyless/Williams%2012%20String%20Keyless.html
Thanks for the kind comments Paul.
Brad, listen to the low strings with the Steel King! I did not go universal with this tuning and add the C6 pedals. I can get enough of the C6 single string notes with the Eb knee lever engaged and plenty of chords with my added LKV, the extra 2 strings and already existing E9 positions and pedals. I just didn't use the C6 neck enough and this single neck is a simpler machine and can get tons of rhythm vamps and play tunes like Honky Tonk without switching necks. Not all the offerings of a D-10 but more offering for the most used neck, the E9th neck! |
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Brad Malone
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2016 4:44 pm Steel King Amp clips
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| Greg, I listened to your Steel King clips and IMHO they are warm and full bodied..I like them better than the first series of clips..I guess that goes to show that a different combination of guitar and amp gets a different result in tone and sound. Remember that on our 8 string E9th tuning we had a low G# on our 8th string..then they went to a ten string E9th tuning but they added the high G#, D# and F# and took away our low G#..well now you got it back plus one...Good luck with your new 12 stringer. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 16 Oct 2016 4:57 pm
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To my ears, the Fender Steel King clips sounded better than the Peavey clips.
Beautiful guitar. I love my old Williams 400 Series S-10.
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Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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bob drawbaugh
From:
scottsboro, al. usa
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Posted 16 Oct 2016 5:03 pm
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| Sweet Guitar. What do you call that color? it's stunning. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Brad Malone
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2016 6:17 pm LOWER 3RD string to F# with your LKR
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| Greg, you can get a fuller B6th if you lower your 3rd string to F# with your LKR the same KL you lower your E's to Eb..only a suggestion. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2016 7:01 pm
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| I'm used to hitting the F# on top and have a few riffs that use the G# in Bb mode also. Your idea would be easier to implement and more strummable. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 16 Oct 2016 7:41 pm
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Quite a few people in Texas are fond of that color! |
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Dwight Lewis
From:
Huntsville, Alabama
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Posted 17 Oct 2016 9:09 am Williams S12
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Yes the Fender sounds more old school, cleaner separation but the peavey has a smoothness to it thats a little more refined;creamier so to speak; IMHO. How is the sustain on this baby Greg? If'n I was going to buy a new keyless, Williams and Lamar are the 2 builders that I would want for a keyless model. Again, the sound bites are very sweet and the pictures are and advertising dream. Well laid out. If this doesn't push someone over the edge to buy a new Williams....Omg.....this whole thread is very energizing to view with some very good ideas on copedants as well.
Dwight
_________________
Dekley 7p4k(PRS-10C), BMI S12 5p5kn
Last edited by Dwight Lewis on 18 Oct 2016 12:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 17 Oct 2016 9:22 am
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I think the Fender Steel King is the best sounding amp I ever played through. But it's another 60 or 70 pound back-breaker, and at my age, I needed something lighter.
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Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Brad Malone
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2016 9:45 am Eb to C# on the Eb kl
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| Greg, another idea is to lower the 2nd eb string to c# with the kl that lowers the two E's to Eb..Bud Charlton did that. Greg, that steel will keep you busy for the rest of your life. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2016 9:51 am
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Dwight, the sustain is about average. Not as long as my old Emmons push pull and not as short as a pot metal Sho-Bud. A long tail reverb adds a bit more sustain as needed. I've found that on gigs you have to cut back the bass on the Steel King as the amp will bottom out on the lower strings. In the studio at average volumes though it has the fullness and bass response of my Webb 6-14-E.
Mike, the Steel King will stay mounted on my stand in the studio!
Brad, I am already in need of a few more bell cranks, pull rods, spring clips and nylon tuners. I want to lower the 12th string a half tone maybe using the 1st pedal. Darn why didn't I think to ask for delivery with a few extra pull parts?????? |
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George Redmon
From:
Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.
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Posted 17 Oct 2016 10:07 pm
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Great Guitar Greg, sounds fantastic. Keyless is the only way to go.  |
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George Redmon
From:
Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.
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Posted 17 Oct 2016 10:08 pm
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"I think the Fender Steel King is the best sounding amp I ever played through."
I owned one to. Except for the weight, I agree with you mike. |
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Tom Mossburg
From:
AZ,
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Posted 17 Oct 2016 10:49 pm Pics
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You know Greg, I can't understand why every pedal steel builder isn't knocking down your door to get you a guitar. Your descriptions, pics and revues of these guitars are far better than any website or brochures they have. They'd have to pay a PR firm way more than what they get for a steel to even come close to what you provide. What a great contributor to the forum.
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MSA Studio Pro U-12 x 2, Telonics |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2016 5:36 am
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George, the weight isn't a problem if it just sits at home! I would invest in some decent lightweight, big tires transport for regular moving of this beast if I was still gigging. At the steel shows I've attended in the past the Walker Stereo Steel blows the Steel King away. It seems to project the sound better in all directions and has solid bass without bottoming out at higher volumes. Love to have one of those to try! In a smaller space I like the Webb 6-14-E better in all regards but not enough to justify the cost difference. As part of the recording mix it's often hard to tell one amp from another. Sitting at home, next to the amp however, I want the sound I hear in the near field to be pleasing otherwise it's no fun to play.
Thanks Tom! The photos are revealing in that I see things about the design and construction looking at the photos that I didn't notice in person. It's rewarding enough for me that a great product gets the press it deserves. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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George Redmon
From:
Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2016 10:25 am
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| George, it does look awesome in red! I liked the Webb amp in red also. |
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