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Topic: Steel sound differences, are they a fantasy? |
Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 11:22 am |
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With all this talk of different sounds, sweet tones and what not in various steel guitar brands, how differing are these steels in actuality?
In other words, would anyone other than a long time steel player actually be able to identify the different steels as per their maker?
To add some clarification to this, I know that individual players can make a steel sound different by their means of using their picks, bars, style of play and so on. The point is however, if an average but good player were to sit down and play a Zum, an Emmons then a Sho Bud then an MCI, all through the same Nashville 1000 amp using the same settings; and, the listeners were not able to see which guitar was being played, could the various brands of these steel guitars be picked by the listeners?
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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)
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Lem Smith
From:
Long Beach, MS
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 11:59 am
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Les,
I don't believe they could tell the difference. Sure, someone like Buddy Emmons or Lloyd Green might be able to, but I don't believe for a second that the average audience member would know the difference in sound between the latest highest tech pedal steel and an old Maverick, or any other student model guitar.
Lem |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 12:00 pm
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I listen to those multi-steeler recordings and hear different sounding steels.
At the moment it's Big E and Jimmie Crawford,
they sound quite different, but great in each's own way. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 12:09 pm
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| Yeah, DD, but the test was for the SAME player to play the different steels, to eliminate the effect of the player. (Of course, the same player may play differently on different steels, to coax their sound out of each one). Also, the setup of the problem specified that the SAME AMP SETTINGS be used. This is maybe interesting but, in general, I think it's kinda pointless, because I think a more important question is, if you DO tweak the amp, can the same player make most guitars sound the same. Many of us have noted, for example, that Emmons always sounds like Emmons, regardless of what brand he's playing. Now, he may have to play a little differently (adjusting picking attack, etc.), and may have to tweak the amp, to get his sound out of each guitar, but at least to my ears, he usually if not always succeeds. FWIW. |
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Cor Muizer Jr
From:
The Netherlands/europe
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 12:51 pm
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i also hear a big big difference in steelguitar brands.
for example at the moment i listen quite as much to the cd i got from danny hullihen and there are three players
two on the zumsteel and one on a gfi.
lot of difference even between the two zumsteels.
cor  [This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 02 February 2005 at 12:51 PM.] [This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 02 February 2005 at 12:53 PM.] |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 1:12 pm
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Jim remember who picked out the
"other Steel" on Finaly Here
Same player.
But I told you which cut had the other steel. |
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Leslie Ehrlich
From:
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 1:18 pm
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| Pickups! There's where the sound is! |
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Terry Edwards
From:
Florida... livin' on spongecake...
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 1:34 pm
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I always sound like me no matter what kind of guitar or amp I play!
Terry |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 1:39 pm
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| DD, you're right. Good point. |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 2:30 pm
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Also when listening to Through TheYears,
both Jimmy and Buddy are playin JCH steels.
Buddy always sounds like Buddy,
but Buddy on different amps, steels and effects.
I would never say his tambor was always the same, but HE ALWAYS sounded like Buddy.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 03 February 2005 at 12:37 AM.] |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 2:34 pm
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| Les, yes there are big differences in the characteristics in the tonal qualities of different brand guitars. Steel players who cannot here it have a hearing difficiency. My ZB sounds radically different than my Sho-Bud or Emmons push-pull did with the same amp and settings. It doesn't matter whether or not an audience member could differentiate the difference in brands. It only matters to us steel players who prefer a particular sound. I will say this, bad string separation and muddy tone is a bad characteristic on any guitar for me. Maybe not for someone else. I don't like warm sounding guitars. I care less about how a guitar plays than how it sounds as long as it is mechanicly stable and accurate. [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 02 February 2005 at 02:35 PM.] [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 02 February 2005 at 02:38 PM.] [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 02 February 2005 at 02:39 PM.] [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 02 February 2005 at 02:40 PM.] |
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Dennis Hilsabeck
From:
Salem, Oregon, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 2:35 pm
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I hope to sound like me someday  !
Newbee!!
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Robert Thomas
From:
Mehama, Oregon, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 3:35 pm
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| Hey Dennis, I have been playing for well over 50 years and I still sound like me, I bet you sound like you too! |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 3:42 pm
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It was a lot easier before people started switching pickups around. I'm sure I can tell vintage Sho-Bud vs Emmons vs Fender.
Today, any steel is likely to have any pickup in it. The distinct tone of a guitar brand is a thing of the past.
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 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6) |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 3:52 pm
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| I don't think the different steel sounds are a fantasy. Pickups make a big difference. Some steels, like the old Fender pedal steels sound very different, possibly because of the pickups. But most modern all-pulls, even with differnent pickups can be made to sound very similar to the listener by adjusting the amp and the playing style. Even though you can adjust so they sound the same to a listener, different steels feel different to the player. When haven't played my push-pull for awhile, I'm always amazed at how different it plays from my Zum. The p-p has easier sustain and string separation. I can adjust with my volume pedal and amp settings so the listener might not hear the difference. But they just feel very different to play. |
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Wayne Baker
From:
Altus Oklahoma
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 4:03 pm
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Go Emmons or stay at home.
v/r,
Wayne Baker |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 4:13 pm
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| Quote: |
| ...how differing are these steels in actuality...through the same Nashville 1000 amp using the same settings? |
Comparisons like this are kinda like comparing the driving positions of different cars without adjusting the seats.
Sound-wise, I think all the modern guitars are pretty close. If you aren't getting a good sound...it's probably not the guitar's fault. |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 4:20 pm
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They sound different to us.
But to the casual listener, I don't think so.
They notice the singer, and if the band "sounds good".
Can you tell the difference between a new Steinway Grand Piano and the Alma-Tadema Steinway concert grand piano that recently sold for a record $675,000?
I can't. Somebody must, to pay such a high price.
When I listen to a great pianist, my appreciation is mostly based on if I like their choice of songs.
Accept the fact that this "quest for tone" is only for your own benifit. I play my best when I'm happy with the tone, so it's worth it.
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Webb Kline
From:
Orangeville, PA
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 6:32 pm
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Bobby Lee's right. You used to be able to tell a Bud, P/P, Fender, etc. But, that has changed with the availability of pickups.
But you certainly can tell individual PSGs apart, when you play them, just like most any other instrument. Without trying to sound sexist--women steelers could say the same about men--but a relationship with a musical instrument is--in a way-- like a relationship with a woman. Some women can be young and beautiful and seem to have it all together, yet if there is no chemistry between you and her, you can't make it work no matter how hard you try. Conversely, you might meet a woman who is older, not a beauty queen, yet there is something there that makes the magic happen and you become inseparable.
That is the point that I have come to in picking my instruments. I no longer buy something because everybody says it is the King Rat. I've played too many instruments which had rave reviews that I simply could not connect with.
My MCI with BL 705s and ZB, my old Joe Pass Epiphone, Taylor 410 and 73 year old Dobro, have a lot of mileage on them, but they are instruments that inspire me more than anything I've ever owned. As they wear out, it will be very difficult to part with them. They are instruments which seem to bring out my deepest emotions and artistic expression.
There a lot of great steel guitars out there, but the ones that just knock us out when we play them are few and far between, regardless of what nameplate is on them.
Personally, I do think that JCH's and old Push pulls sound more consistently excellent than other guitars. But, that's just me. |
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Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 3 Feb 2005 9:17 am
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I guess what I am reading here is that different brands of pedal steel guitars have little in the way of discernable sound or tone differences. It is only after the individual player adds his personal sound enhancements that make the difference as to what the varying brands of steels sound like.
This sort of settles a bit of a discussion we had (friendly argument) between two other steelers who claim they can pick out a Sho Bud guitar from an Emmons and so on without even having to sit and listen to it. I suppose this is much like someone arguing that a factory Ford is better than a factory GM or that a Chrysler is better than a Ford. It’s the guy who is in control who is making the difference.
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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)
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