| Author |
Topic: Tuning Split(s) on a Sho Bud Super Pro |
Ben Waligoske
From:
Denver, CO
|
Posted 26 Jan 2017 3:50 pm |
|
Hi all,
Hoping to get a bit of insight regarding tuning the split(s) on my Super Pro. Some of you may remember this guitar from being for sale on the forum a year or so ago - it's not exactly a typical Super Pro and has been hot-rodded underneath as well as has screws added (EDIT - these seem to be return spring screws) on the changer end.
I've got my vertical lever changing the B's to Bb's tuned just fine (both open and with AB split position, not much tweaking was ever required other than the hex nut at the changer), but for some reason can't get my secondary LKL lever (which alone drops string 6 G# to G) to behave properly in the pedals-down split position for the G# split. It's tuned properly on the no-pedals change...
Anyways, I've tried cranking the changer-end screw in both directions and didn't get any result on the split tuning. Being still somewhat new to the finer points of some of this stuff, I'm sure it's user-error... can anyone comment on what I'm doing wrong? Would love to have that split tuning working to play with in pedals down position!
I included a couple of photos of my changer in case that helps, but please let me know if I can include any other angles or visual aids to help diagnose the problem..
Thanks,
-b
Last edited by Ben Waligoske on 26 Jan 2017 5:24 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
|
 |
Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
|
Posted 26 Jan 2017 4:29 pm
|
|
It's not entirely clear from the picture, but it doesn't look to me as though there are split screws in the changer. If you're referring to the row of screws below the changer opening in the end plate, they are adjustment screws for the return springs (which are not present on a stock Super Pro) (the screws, that is). Split screws would be in the back of the changer housing, above the end plate.
If there are also split screws and I'm just misinterpreting the picture, my apologies! |
|
|
|
Ben Waligoske
From:
Denver, CO
|
Posted 26 Jan 2017 4:45 pm
|
|
Brint, you may be perfectly correct and I'm not claiming to be an authority on this. That said, any idea why it'd be so easy to tune the LKV B>Bb split, but not so the 6th string split?
If it's simply mechanically not possible, so it goes... but I'm still curious. For what's it's worth, following your post, I do not necessarily see split screws in that case - I was under the assumption the return spring adjustments were the splits... chalk that up to experience!? |
|
|
|
Jack Stanton
From:
Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey
|
Posted 26 Jan 2017 5:11 pm
|
|
| I remember Buddy Emmons at a seminar when he had just gotten the red & black MCI and he explained that even though it didn't have split tuning screws in the changer, you still could get a split on any all pull guitar by adding an extra rod. I think ( not sure, a long time ago) that he said you have to put the split rod in the raise hole closest to the top of the guitar, but I bet if you do a search on the forum you'll find it. |
|
|
|
Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
|
Posted 26 Jan 2017 5:13 pm
|
|
It sounds like you've lucked out with the one split--sometimes it just happens that the combination of the two changes works for the split.
Jack's right that there's a way to get a split using an extra rod, but I've never done it and someone else here can surely explain it. |
|
|
|
Ben Waligoske
From:
Denver, CO
|
Posted 26 Jan 2017 5:18 pm
|
|
Thanks Jack. Again, not claiming to be an authority on this stuff... but if it helps anyone, here's a shot of the underside with the rodding - this is from when I bought the guitar from Damir last year, but should essentially remain unchanged...
 |
|
|
|
Storm Rosson
From:
Silver City, NM. USA
|
Posted 26 Jan 2017 7:02 pm
|
|
Actually a picture of the Super Pro II, made for Jernigan and a couple of LDG's I saw on the for sale section over time shows a mechanism withe a couple long springs and a collar a mount, anyway it's very close to the MSA part Mike sells on psgparts.com. I believe these are kinda universal and provide a "feel" split ....I think...Stormy  |
|
|
|
Storm Rosson
From:
Silver City, NM. USA
|
Posted 26 Jan 2017 7:06 pm
|
|
[img]
 I think u can see it here ,this Doug's Super Pro II.[/img] |
|
|
|
Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
|
Posted 26 Jan 2017 8:31 pm
|
|
Ben, I can see just two tuning nuts on your string #6. I'm not familiar with your changer, how many raise and lower. But looks like they are NOT all used.
Have a look at the tuning end of my Carter. I have three changes on string 6, but 4 tuning nuts:
P0 G# to F# (lower)
P2 G# to A (raise)
RKL G# to F# (lower)
P2+RKL split at G
The dark colored tuning nut on top is the extra adjustment needed so the RKL by itself, and in combination with P2 (B pedal) give properly tuned results.
Your LKL does the same job as my RKL. Seems that by adding one more rod you can achieve the same result.
edit: RKL is G# to F#
Last edited by Dan Robinson on 26 Jan 2017 10:57 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
|
|
Mike Flick
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 26 Jan 2017 8:43 pm
|
|
Most people lower the 6 string a whole step to f# on a lever and combine it with the pedal to get a "g". If this is what you want to do you will need an additional LKL rod to tune the split.
I also have a super pro and I too have an(acceptably) in tune split on the 5th string with no additional rodding. However the 6th string split I mentioned above didnt come close to being in tune without a split tuner.
Last edited by Mike Flick on 26 Jan 2017 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
|
Posted 26 Jan 2017 8:55 pm
|
|
Exactly what split are you hoping to achieve if your knee only drops 6 to G?
If you drop it to F#, you can make it split at G.
You'll need another rod on the 6th string lever, going to the raise scissor. When you run the extra rod method, you have to tune it in the following order:
1) open G#
2) A note, B pedal
3) keep the B pedal down, add the lever, tune the G note with the lever' s rod in the lowering scissor
4) release the pedal, tune the F# with the lever's rod in the raise scissor.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
|
|
|
Ben Waligoske
From:
Denver, CO
|
Posted 26 Jan 2017 9:07 pm
|
|
Thanks gentlemen... I had considered the possibility for the need of extra rodding to achieve this, but wanted to explore the possibilities without changing the guitar around too much.
Unfortunately to your point Mike, the change doesn't seem to want to go all the way to F# with simple hex nut adjustment, although I didn't mess with the lever's throw at all to test it out... it might get there if I play with it a little more underneath.
Lane - honestly, I'm not sure what I'm trying to achieve. As I progress, I understand the benefit of almost everything else on my Super Pro, but that extra LKL lever for the 6th string is sort of the final frontier as of now. My Encore does have the Franklin change in the 0 position, which drops that string to the F#, but similarly on that guitar I'm exploring the possibilities and uses as I go and I'd be lying if I said I fully understood it just yet.
Maybe I'll search about for the merits of the G# to F# lower on that string and find some epiphany... for now, it does seem though that extra rodding or tweaking might be required... |
|
|
|
Ben Waligoske
From:
Denver, CO
|
Posted 26 Jan 2017 9:10 pm
|
|
| Also, I suppose in the pedals down position, being able to drop the 6th string a half tone while keeping the 3rd string up a half-tone (as the root, pedals down in a 3/4/5 grip in this example) might have some use for some "out" sounding licks... but I'm just thinking out loud, and I'm open to persuasion... |
|
|
|
Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
|
Posted 26 Jan 2017 9:16 pm
|
|
The "feel-stop" device Stormy showed isn't a "split", but an alternative to a split. I have one on my LDG--my LKR lowers 6 to F# with the feel stop at G. That's one way to get the G. The potential downside is that you need to adjust the feel stop and get used to it through practice so that you can, well, feel it when you hit it and stop at the G but still move smoothly through the feel stop to bend all the way to F# when you want that. On the other hand, you don't have to use two pulls to get the note.
A "split" where you press both the B pedal and the F# lower simultaneously resulting in a G needs the extra pull rod setup, in the absence of a split screw in the changer.
The Super Pro changer can definitely get all the way down to F# if you use a plain sixth string. With a wound I'm not sure.
Last edited by Brint Hannay on 26 Jan 2017 9:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Ben Waligoske
From:
Denver, CO
|
Posted 26 Jan 2017 9:25 pm
|
|
| And Yep - I have the Lloyd Green Jagwire set on my Super Pro currently which has a wound 6th and it just doesn't "quite" want to get there (to the F#, sans undercarriage adjustment)... |
|
|
|
Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
|
Posted 26 Jan 2017 10:24 pm
|
|
Lane, I'm glad you explained that. My RKL actually lowers G# to F#, so the split P2+RKL is G. Not what Ben described. Sorry bout that.
P2 G# to A (raise)
RKL G# to F# (lower) |
|
|
|
Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
|
Posted 27 Jan 2017 8:33 am
|
|
| Ben Waligoske wrote: |
| And Yep - I have the Lloyd Green Jagwire set on my Super Pro currently which has a wound 6th and it just doesn't "quite" want to get there (to the F#, sans undercarriage adjustment)... |
You can test whether the changer itself can lower the wound sixth to F#. Leaving the pedal and lever alone, at the nylon tuner end use something like a small screwdriver to push the lower finger itself (not the nylon tuner) in as far as it will go and see what pitch it reaches. If it doesn't reach F#, no change to the undercarriage will make it happen. |
|
|
|
