C raise on C6th

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I know that a lot of people raise C to C# on their right knee, opposite the lower to B. It makes sense from a musical standpoint, but it kept throwing me off...

See, I think of the C to C# as the C6th equivalent of the E9th's F lever. That lever has always been on LKL, on every guitar I've ever had. So naturally, my reflexive action is to move LKL whenever I want to raise the root tone.

I tried to follow the standard, I really did, but I kept automatically going for LKL. I'm a late adopter of C6th. I've only been playing it for a few years, and I want to take the path of least resistance.

Now I have the C to C# change on LKL, and I never hit the wrong lever when I need it. I've been playing it this way since August. I like it. Click "crossover" in my sig, and tell me what I'm missing by putting the C# in the "wrong" place.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Bobby I can see your point. I did move mine from RKR,
but I put it on LKV. and A to Bb on RKR

I do see your parallel to the F lever

Olli Haavisto · From: Jarvenpaa,Finland

I have that change on the LL and I also think of it as the F lever of the C6 neck

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Olli Haavisto
Polar steeler
Finland
oharvester@hotmail.com

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

I too relate the C-C# (and C-B) as the E-F and E's to Eb from the E9. I might just be fortune that it don't bother me having them on the opposite knee when switching to the C6 neck.
A thorough analyzis tells me the C-C# work very well on LKL. Also easy to use it with P2 (C6=P5)
If I could come with a suggestion to make things feel even more familiar to the E9, would be to swap LKR and RKR. Going from P3+P4 (C6= P6+P7) to P4 (C6= P7) w LKR would be easy and smooth as ......
The dom7th note for the open C would then be found on RKR instead.
Seems like a very intuitive, easy to play setup already so really no need to change anything.
Don't know how easy it would be to play P5 (C6=P Cool

and LKL at the same time but seems like a minor sacrifise. Impossible not.
And while I am posting here, merry Xmas to you b0b and happy holidays filled w sounds of pedal-steel from all over the world.

Bengt Erik

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 24 December 2004 at 02:33 PM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

The reach from P8 to LKL doesn't bother me, Bengt. I do it all the time. Thanks for your feedback.

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Bobby-I like your 12 string setup on the C6 neck. Everything is there. I also like the C-D-E 4th 3rd 2nd. I still can't get used to the D being on the outside of the scale. I know Pete Burak lines his up your way on his universal B6. Sounds more logical....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

When I started studying C6 (fairly recently) I virtually copied Buddy's set-up (on your advice, Bobby, when I first joined this Forum!) - the only change I made was to switch the 'C raise and lower' to my LKR and LKL respectively. That made it a replica of the 'E'levers on my 'Day' E9th set-up, and was of considerable help in getting me familiarized with the 'new' neck.

Happy Christmas, all!

RR

Steven Welborn · From: Ojai,CA USA

Im with you. I converted to left knee C raises and lowers a long time ago.In addition to the E9 parallel action, the two string load vs. the four string load was a big improvement for a lever in frequent use. Another plus was the independence from the volume pedal foot.

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

Cool setup b0b. A little further look into the setup reveal that on strings 6 thru 1 you have access to all inversions of a minor pentatonic scale and 4 of the 5 positions can also be played as a minor pentatonic w a natural 6th instead of the b7 note. Cool

1 more vote for swapping LKR w RKR would be access to all inversions of a closed voiced minor6th, minor7th or dom7th by using only LKL P2 P3 and RKR (works on strings 7 6 5 4 only)
P2 & LKL would give 1 inversion
P3 & RKR would give another inversion
and LKL P2 P3 & RKR would give the last inversion.
Amazinig how smooth one can slide between chords using only 2pedals and 2 levers on opposite knees.

Swapping LKR and RKR wont mess up the acces to the pentatonic scales on the top strings.

Bengt Erlandsen

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Bengt, are you saying that my A to Bb should be on the right knee RKR instead of the left LKR?

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

Yes. At least it makes sense to me and the combinations I see possible. 5th str A-Bb on RKR and the present RKR changes moved to the LKR where the A-Bb was. That is of course if there is not a very used combination already w RKR and LKL at the same time that would be a too big compromise to give up.
The new combination w LKL and RKR (raising 4 to C# and 5 to Bb afterwards is a really nice change on strings 5 4 2 1 to mention another possibility.

Bengt

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 25 December 2004 at 04:09 PM.]

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

I hope I did not contribute to confusion about the setup.
I never suggested moving the RKL 4th C-B
It does a better function where it is since it can be used to get a smooth transition from B-C# when used in combination w LKL.
Only suggestion was swapping changes on LKR with the changes on RKR.
I can see how the presently RKR relate to the D9. Different musical needs/ideas will need certain changes certain places. I saw more possibilities for certain changes by having the 7 E-F, 3 D-D# on LKR and having 5 A-Bb on RKR but that was rooted in the music I would like to play. That is the beauty of the PSG as I see it. One can adapt the setup to suit individual styles.

Bengt

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I have the A to Bb on RKR als and like it there.

Your RKR is similar to a p6 inverted,
but you get the Eb on a different string

I put the C to C# on the LKV because I use it less than the B to Bb,
but a lot more than the A to Ab

I also have a 3rd to minor 3rd lever on LKL which I use constantly with RKR. This on someways complicates the next iteration, but I realized I can not do without it.
I jeust added your RKR, but on RKL 2, and though I don't like the lever placement, I do like the change a lot.

I don't think you have dug a hole.

Those extra D's from the 12 strings do add some interesting things to the tuning
Would you call this a C69 ? I would

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 26 December 2004 at 03:10 AM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I tend to call it C6add9.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Well, I am flatting the E and using the Eb over the F,
as well as minoring the top triad sometimes.

In the Key of C, E is the third, and the minor third Eb
In F, Eb is the dom7 and E is the major7.
So I called it Eb.

I thought about C6 add9, but I general call them 69 chords.
I write with them a good bit. They can move in many directions as pivot chords.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 27 December 2004 at 12:32 AM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

You are 100% correct to use an Eb in that context, David. I'm just saying that the D# on my RKR is a different note, quite flat of your Eb. It doesn't work well with the C or the F. Maybe it's a bad idea. It's experimental.

I tried the E to Eb for a while and didn't seem to need it much.

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