New Member - Comments & Sho-Bud Question

Michael Barone · From: Downingtown, Pennsylvania

Hello,
I am really enjoying this forum, especially for the amazing amount of information available utilizing “search”. I have spent many hours reading about mechanical issues, blocking techniques, picks, strings and bars.

I purchased Joe Wright’s video on Pick Blocking. This guy is an excellent teacher, methodically taking me through each skill level, but man, this is like learning how to play all over again! (the difference between palm blocking and pick blocking). Needless to say, my palm blocking is not that good yet, either.

Now, my first question. I have a Sho-Bud Pro 1, serial 8504, originally with 3 pedals and 2 knee levers. I added a LKR (a converted LKL kit). The purpose is to lower string 6 - G# to F#, and string 9 - D to C#. I put on a new set of strings, tuned everything up, and it worked well, consistent and stayed in tune. This included the split that I got using the second pedal and LKR together, giving me a perfect “G natural” on string 6.

-----P1---P2---P3-----LKR---RKL---RKR
F#
D
G#--------A
E--------------F#-------------Eb----F
B----C#-------C#
G#--------A------------G/F#
F#
E------------------------------Eb----F
D------------------------C#
B----C#

Then something happened. After about 4 days I lost the split. I guess it may have something to do with the string stretching out, or the changer, but I don’t know. (I’m using a .020 for string 6). Now the split only works when I engage LKR first, then pedal 2. If I press pedal 2 first, then LKR, the G natural is way sharp, 20 cents or more. I read Ricky Davis’ post on “Some Spring Secrets for Sho-Bud Owners”, but I don’t see a spring adjustment. The springs have a hook on both ends, so they can either be on or off only. The changer appears to “lock up”, until pedal 2 is released and pressed again (when engaging LKR)

Thanks for your comments.

------------------
Mike Barone

[This message was edited by Michael Barone on 18 December 2004 at 06:34 PM.]

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Mike; it could be several things, but I'll take a shot..ha.
First of all; do you have a extra raise rod for the split tune???.
The finger has to travel(lower) further when it is raised first; then it does when the finger lowers from the open G# note. So if your pedal down "A" note to "G" is sharp; than the knee lever needs more travel. Then when you have that "A" to "G"....>then you lower the open note from G# to F# and you will now have too much travel for that note; and that is where you want to retune the extra raise rod for that open F# note.
You have a later model Sho~bud than the kind I was discussing in my "Spring Secret" thread; so that won't particularly work for yours; but do you have raise springs on your particular Sho~bud??(those are the little helper springs hooked to the raise portion of the finger that are next to the body) and if there is one on the 6th string; you want to remove it; if your have a hard time getting the pedal down "A" note to lower to "G" on the lever. Also I'm note sure what pullers(bell cranks) you have?? Sho~bud did something different mechanically almost every year..ha...
Also; if you particular fingers run through the slot on a bottom plate...and while trying to lower; then lower spring might be hitting the small piece of the raise portion of the finger and would inhibit the lowering if that is happening.
So start with that; and lets see what happens..ha..
Ricky

Michael Barone · From: Downingtown, Pennsylvania

Ricky, thanks for the info. I am not using an extra raise rod. The changer gives me the split. When I installed the LKR, I tried it out and the split was there, as I expected. (I learned this from other posts using "search"). My LKR has 2 lower rods, one for string 6 and one for string 9. After 2 days of using it I relaxed some of the tension on the raise spring for string 6. I inserted a link, a small piece of paper clip. (Yes, I have the helper springs). This made the LKR easier to press, and I liked it.

I tried your suggestion of removing the helper spring for string 6, and there was no difference in operation. The changer still appears to lock up.

Like I said, When I first installed it, it worked great, regardless of the sequence of the levers used to get the split. After about 4 days, the changer started locking up.

On this guitar the bell cranks only have 2 large holes each. Most of the raises have the rod attached (through a fitting) to the hole closest to the cross-shaft. Most of the lowers are attached to the outer hole. On these, the large hole has a fitting on which the rod goes through, and it is held there by a little hex screw.

My LKR is a converted LKL kit with some pieces added from a hardware store. This bell crank has 5 holes (2 sets) to select and attach the lower rods directly.

The lower springs are not in contact with anything unusual as far as I can tell.

My changer is double raise, single lower.

I hope I'm using the correct terminology in my statements. This is a first for me. I hope that I clarified some things so that you (and others) can better understand this problem.

I was having so much fun practicing with this new lever, and then the fun stopped.

When I can get the time during the week, I am going to lubricate the changer. I wonder what I should use, and if this will help.

Thanks again

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Yes Mike your explanation of the specifics are clear enough. I however don't have a clue then; on why the finger is binding, without looking at it. Because I can think of a dozen things; and they would be just countless questions to you.
I would say if someone could look at it that works on Steels might could help ya.
Good luck.
Ricky

Michael Barone · From: Downingtown, Pennsylvania

Ricky, thanks for your input. You got me thinking about examining some other details.

When I find the source of the problem, I'll let you know.

I've read many posts here before joining the forum, and it is obvious that your dedication toward helping others is exemplary.

Thanks for taking the time.

Have a Merry Christmas!

------------------
Mike Barone

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

No problem Mike and thanks for the kind words and I do wish I could just say the magical few words and wala.
But I'll tell ya man...if you just very carefully look into it with a fine-tooth-comb and really watch that finger move and see what's going on and how this moves here and this pulls there and this stops here and so on...>you will come up with it man AND; you will learn more about your guitar than I could ever say to ya...>that's how I learned it...ah..ha.
Please also; if while you dig in and you get some specifics of what's happening/not-happening, feel free to ask/shout out; whatever....Stay with it.
Ricky

richard burton · From: Britain

What diameter are the cross-shafts (the shafts with the bellcranks attached)? I'm betting these are flexing slightly and contributing to the problem.
I've not seen an all-pull that had a perfect split whatever the pedal/knee lever sequence. One way was always more accurate than the other, but not by 20 cents, that's why I think it could be flexing cross-shafts.
R B

Michael Barone · From: Downingtown, Pennsylvania

Richard,
The cross-shafts are 5/16" diameter, on the pedals and knee levers. Some time ago I set this knee lever up to lower both G# strings to G natural, and that worked well.

I am wondering now about an acceptable industry standard for the diameter of the cross-shafts. (The inspection sticker on my Pro 1 has Duane Marrs' signature).

I have limited experience working on the undercarriage, but it just appears that the changer is causing this. I examined the pull rods carefully while engaging both combinations, they are not moving unusually, and the tension appears to be consistent.

However, I noticed a slight mechanical movement (that appears to be some binding) while watching the changer where the nylon tuners are, (and on the inside), when this sequence is used: press P-2, engage LKR, >release p-2, press p-2.

I enjoy learning everything I can about this. There are no PSG mechanics or players near where I live.

I am going to try to get to a music store tomorrow to see if I can buy a .022p string, and try that for kicks.

Thanks for your input. It is greatly appreciated.

------------------
Mike Barone

[This message was edited by Michael Barone on 21 December 2004 at 05:52 PM.]

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